Tony Stark Policci (00:01) All right, everyone, thank you so much for tuning into another episode of the Hero Out podcast. I am so excited that you just heard the introduction to my amazing guest, my friend for quite a few years, Katie McPherson. Katie, thank you so much for being here with me today. I'm extremely excited about our talks today. Katey (00:16) Yeah, I'm so honored to be here. Thanks for inviting me. Tony Stark Policci (00:20) So Katie, the reason I wanted you to come on the show is because I've known what you do for many years and it's super important. Particularly, you know, I'm excited about it because you're right here in my home state, in my hometown, and you're impacting the kids in my community. But you impact, you know, parents and youth nationwide with what you've been doing and the work that you're involved in. So could you just briefly... give me a description of what it is that you say that you do, and I know you do so much. Katey (00:55) Yeah, so I currently work for B.A.R.K., which is an artificial intelligence app. We have a phone, we have a watch. So we're a technology company that protects students online. So that's my day job. So I travel the country speaking to all sorts of audiences, law enforcement, parents, educators mostly around the dangers about the internet and then how sort of the other side of technology, which is the relational side, so how to manage it, but also we're in this together. And so I speak at a lot of schools across the country. And then locally, I'm sort of this like weird referral source, where if a student is struggling with things like mental health or anxiety, depression, suicidal ideation, I'm often called upon just to give a referral, like where do we go? How do we attack this? I also do some work in the schools around bullying and harassment. So sometimes parents will call and say, you know, my kid is having a really hard time with this other kid. How do we work with the school? How do I work with the school administration? So sometimes I sit in meetings like that and just try to help people. So that's me. That's what I do. Tony Stark Policci (02:12) Yeah, that's amazing. Can you tell me what inspired you to dedicate your life and your career to working with education and, you know, youth and mental health and safety and all of these different things that you are so Katey (02:25) I think it was just part of my DNA. My father is an attorney. My mother was a 40-year-long French teacher taught at the high school for many, many years. so just watching them, education was just part of our household. I think, too, probably my dad's work as a prosecutor as well as a civil attorney, I... fortunately or unfortunately came out with like a very strong sense of justice. And so I often look through the lens of, know, is this just, is this fair? Is there someone to advocate for in this situation? And, you know, in this fast-paced world that we're living in, there's a lot going on for our kids. You know, the access to devices exposes them to so much. And so I'm often just always thinking about how can I advocate for them? How can I help protect them? How can I educate their parents specifically to also advocate for them as well? So I think it was just a part of the DNA. Tony Stark Policci (03:29) Wow. Is there like a pivotal moment in your life that like led you in this specific direction? I mean, it sounds like just from the background with your parents and what you witnessed growing up, that was super impactful. But was there like a moment when you knew anything that you point back to as like, this is my why moment. Katey (03:54) So I think that moment happened for me while I was a school administrator. I took a big leap of faith after being in the schools for 22 years. I had a student that was unfortunately sexually assaulted by a parent at our school that came to my desk and then simultaneously that same year a student at a neighboring high school Tony Stark Policci (04:15) Mm. Katey (04:23) took his life on the school campus. And so I started seeing like this access to devices being sort of the common theme. Like how did this parent of a student at the school get access to another student and sexually assault her? And how did this child use his device to try to cry for help? And so that moment of like my current work, that pivotal moment was like, I feel like I can have a larger reach if I leave the school campus, not that I necessarily wanted to. And someday I may go back after my girls are out of high school. But really the current work that I'm doing, the pivotal moment was there's something going on here that is much bigger than just this tiny campus that I'm on. And I felt like those two situations really spoke to like, you got to do something about And so that's what led me to my current. Tony Stark Policci (05:24) That's super powerful. You know, I think oftentimes I know for myself, I see things that are going on and they bother me and I want to do something and I don't know what to do. And I'm sure that there's a lot of people listening to this right now that may have similar situations in a variety of different areas where there's social injustices or just, you know, a sense of unfairness, inequality. I want to know what do you think are the biggest misconceptions that parents have about their kids' mental health and their safety nowadays? Katey (06:01) I think that, you know, it's a natural tendency to think, not my kid, right? Everybody lives on the island of not my kid, NMK. It's a beautiful island. There's obviously a natural inclination to be in denial about like, my kid could never do that. My kid would never vape. My kid would never drive 150 down Gilbert Road, right? We all want to believe the best, but I think... again, going back to devices and the exposure that they have to explicit content and material, I think the biggest misconception is not digging into the current reality. Like it's 2025, if your child has a device, they can see pornography, they can access strangers, they can have conversations that you would never have as an adult, right? And so I think the biggest misconception is that you know everything and that, you know, I often say like, how could parents not know this? And my friends will say, Katie, like the last time this guy was 15 years old was 30 years ago. Now he's a dad. He hasn't been 15 for 30 years. You've been working in the schools and with children and teenagers for 30 years. And so this is just commonplace for you. But most parents that are between 35 and 50 years old, The last time they were around teenagers was when they were a teenager and a lot has changed. And so I would say, you know, my biggest encouragement to people is get to know your kid, get to know the access they have and do it together instead of thinking, you know, everything. Tony Stark Policci (07:43) I know as a father, I raised four boys and the first two, my step-sons, they came to me at three and seven. Then my two sons I raised and I did a much better job with my two natural sons than my step-sons, because I was completely unprepared and they were three and seven. But what I tried to do with all of them was encourage honesty and open communication and to really emphasize that I love them. And I was blessed because of what I do for a living to be able to be in the home as I was raising my kids. Like they were there when I woke up, they were there when I came home, I was always at their events. So I felt like we had a pretty good relationship, right? I'm by no means a perfect parent. I I lost my temper with them and yelled at them, you know, and like those kinds of things, but I always try to have open conversation, communication and If I made a mistake, I would go to them and say, you know, what I did was really messed up. You know, I want you to forgive me. I want you to know that's not the that's not how I expect you to behave. I don't want you to look at that as like the best way to handle the situation. Here's what I will do in the future. Blah, blah, blah. I tried to model for them what was great, even when I screwed up. So. As my kids graduated, I thought, you know, I pretty much are as they were as they were in high school and moving towards graduation, I thought it pretty much knew what was going on. And then I discovered things, right? And then after high school, my kids are now, you know, 26 and 20, almost 25. They tell me these stories over the years and I'm like, Katey (09:26) Yeah, how did you not know? Tony Stark Policci (09:27) How did I not know this? And like, how did you hide this from me? I thought I'm so observant. I mean, I come from a background where, you know, I was abused, had addiction issues, you know, like I'm street smart. Katey (09:32) So good. Yeah, Tony Stark Policci (09:43) That's what I thought. And still I miss this stuff. So it makes complete sense to me that so many parents are really just oblivious to what's truly going on. I want to know what you think about this, Katie, because it seems like the world that we live in today and for the last couple of decades just seems to get busier and busier and people are so occupied. It's almost as if trying to be extremely intentional and focused and connected with our children requires massive intention and effort because we're pulled in so many different directions. Is that an issue that you see? Katey (10:29) Yeah. yeah. I mean, when I'm talking about internet safety and digital wellness, like my first statement, which is a pretty bold statement of me to make, but it's the truth is like, we as adults are the worst. are always on our phones. We're always on our laptops. We're head down. We're distracted and we're not present. And so you're probably here tonight to hear me speak about internet safety and how to manage all of this. the first and best thing that we can do is be self-aware enough and mature enough as you are to reflect and be like, I'm part of this. I'm part of this problem I'm trying to solve. being present and like you said, you you had the ability to be at home and a lot of parents don't. And so those that aren't at home as much, like being on your phone when you are at home is a problem for a lot of people. And if you can, kind of check yourself before you talk to your kids about things. They're going to, as you said, with open communication, see like, my dad's being pretty honest about his phone use or his distraction too. and I, mean, as much as I love technology, I think that it is a real issue for most families and you can be the best of families. Like the reality is our lives are on this phone. Our financial livelihoods are on phones and laptops. And so really finding that balance so that you can be present is just so important. Tony Stark Policci (12:03) Yeah, so this concept of just being present, I find in my own life now that almost on a daily basis, no matter what I'm doing, there's this voice in my head that says, this is taking too long. Like, you you've got things to do. And I continuously have to exercise this discipline, be in the moment, you know, work on Stay in the step you're in. That's what I say to myself. So this practice of being present, I don't think it comes natural for a lot of us. Maybe there's some lucky folks out there, but it definitely requires intention and focus. So what do you think, Kitty, about the role that technology plays, both in a positive and negative impact, or in a positive and negative way, and how that impacts the mental health of our kids? Katey (13:03) I saw it the most come up during COVID. Like these kids are so wildly connected. So when the world shut down, so to speak, they were still able to be connected. So I do think that was a positive. On the flip side of that, we know that being in person, mirroring each other, having physical touch, you know, all of the things that make us human are so good for us. And so I think, you know, in a positive sense, you can stay connected. but the connection can never be beat by being in person. And so I think for these kids, it's so important that we have a balance of both. We know that schools are handing out devices so kids have a one-to-one laptop. We know that most eighth graders on up, if not fifth graders on up, have their own personal device. And so I think it's just really important for families to get back to basics. Like we need nature, we need movement. We need physical touch and we need open communication. Like if you can just kind of stick to the four core principles of what makes a human, you got this, right? But if you allow technology to be sort of this tug of war, which a lot of families are dealing with this, where you hand it over for their 12th birthday and then they hit their brother, so you take the phone away and then you're really tired after work and you're like, fine, you can have it back. Like, you're not doing well in math, me your phone. Like this constant tug of war, like it's tearing. people apart and it's losing that trust that you're talking about that when somebody offers me a vape at school, when somebody is like, do you want a smoke pot? When someone's like, let's have sex. Like they're not coming to the parents anymore because for four or five years you've been doing this like back and forth tug of war with this stupid device that all of that trust and open communication. Like your kid's like, I don't trust you. You don't trust me. I'm not going to tell you that somebody offered me marijuana in eighth grade, right? Tony Stark Policci (14:47) Mm. Katey (14:57) And so I think it's just so important to recognize like so positive, wildly connected, but also we have to live in real life, which carries intention with it. Like a few things that I talk about, like, do you have a place in the home where all devices go at night in the off position so that you can be present? there's just so many little things you can do to, as you said, like this is taking too long. Why is this taking so long? You know, to be more intentional and stay in the step. Tony Stark Policci (15:29) The two things come up as I listen to what you said. One, the struggle that I've had over the last couple of years, which I have worked towards and many nights, not every night, but many nights I plug my phone in outside of the bedroom. But for two years now, I've had this Do Not Disturb that comes on at like 10 o'clock where everything goes black on my phone, right? So I have no sound. can't scroll through Instagram or anything else and listen because I've got this thing that comes on. And my phone is on do not disturb except for emergency numbers, right? My wife, my kids, that'll ring no matter what. It was extremely hard to do that as well as not pick my phone up first thing in the morning, right? So when you say that, you know, the It begins with us, you know, detaching ourselves from our addiction to these devices. That I know that that's a hard thing, but it makes such a difference. Like when I'm at dinner with my family or sitting with my kids, I like, have to put my phone away from me because if I get a notification or it's vibrates or something, the compulsion is I want to go check that. And then I'm immediately disconnected. Right. So being intentional. then the second thing that I think about is, you know, have you had the opportunity to work with people specifically to help them like on an individual basis to make changes in certain areas? Katey (17:03) Yeah, I mean, that's one of the things that I do sort of in the evening hours and on weekends is, you know, I'll roll into a family and we sit down as a family and I listen to what the kids think. I listen to what the parents think. We try to find a middle ground. You know, I always tell people you need to have golden guardrails because if I ask an eight year old, how much internet time do you think you should have? They'll say 17 hours, right? So we have to have some golden guardrails with some flexibility knowing that our kids are gonna make some mistakes, knowing that our kids are gonna take advantage, right? But also having sort of tactical things like your router shuts off at 8 p.m., much like your Do Not Disturb, there are routers that are fantastic, that do all the work for you. They filter out porn, they shut down screen time. Parents' screen time can be on while the rest of the house is off. Central charging stations like you're doing with your phone outside of the bedroom, everybody's phone, iPad, video game. is on the central charging station for at least eight hours, right? It gets more difficult as kids move into high school, right? Because they're working jobs, they have to do homework late at night, they need wifi. But for families that have younger kids, if you can get really intentional around, here are the tactical things, the hardware that we have in the house that's protecting us, and here's the software that I'm using to alert me to any issues. And that's what we do at BARC, is we alert parents to any sort of safety issue, whether it's cyber bullying, anxiety, drugs and alcohol, violence, like anything that a parent would be worried about, that alert comes to the parent phone so that you can have a courageous conversation with your child. So there's so many like cool tools, right, that do all the work for you, but you have to be intentional about it, which takes, you know, time. And lots of us are short on time. Tony Stark Policci (18:53) Right. Well, that's a great idea. I just there you dropped a couple of really brilliant ideas. The central charging station. That's so simple. You know, it's like one of those things that I hear and after I hear it is like, why did that never occur to me? You know, and it's so simple and I'm sure it works right once you get people to buy into it. Katey (19:09) Thank But, you know, myself included, like used to, you know, sleep with the phone next to me, because I have this white noise app. And so I need that to fall asleep too. But like, it's so easy in the middle of the night to wake up and be distracted or you're ruminating about a worry. And you just start scrolling and like an hour later, now it's two o'clock in the morning. You know, so it's, again, it's, it's, it's an adult issue as much as it is a kid issue. What I can confidently say is. Devices behind closed bedroom doors with children is never a great idea. Whether it's they're just scrolling, they're accessing pornography, they're having a conflict with a friend, they're talking to a stranger, like nothing good happens after 8 p.m. with an underdeveloped brain and a device. So I do think, you know, when we are smart about this, we can get ahead of some of the yuck and the risk that's out there. Tony Stark Policci (20:08) That is a great little catchphrase. Nothing good happens after 8 p.m. behind closed doors on a device. Yeah. Katey (20:14) Nothing. Like I could tell you hundreds of stories, maybe thousands at this point. Tony Stark Policci (20:20) Well, is there a particular, you know, challenging case that you encountered and something that you learned from it that you could share with us? Katey (20:25) I mean, like the reason I left the public school system to do this work, like this parent adult had been messaging on Snapchat with a child and meeting up with her and giving her Adderall and sexually abusing her. And the other parent came into me and was like, I don't know what's going on with my kid. I'm really worried about her. Like, look at this. And I looked at this conversation back and forth and I was like, this is an adult. because they weren't speaking kid lingo and I know kid lingo and this is your child speaking to an adult who's harming them. So yeah, I mean, that's just one example. You know, I get a lot of calls about pornography. Like people ask me, when should I get my child a phone? And because I'm now 51, I'm very bold. And I say things like, when you're ready for them to see porn, because the minute you hand over a phone, your child will have access to pornography. Tony Stark Policci (20:58) Yeah. Katey (21:25) if you don't take the precautions and use software and hardware to protect them. So those are just a few examples from my life's work so far. Tony Stark Policci (21:36) You know, there are, that is a really powerful statement. I mean, when you think about that, it's, there's something almost, it's a little bit different, but I say something to my kids when they try and justify eating something that's bad for them. You know, well, you know, dad, I don't, don't eat this all the time. I'm like, well, you know, if you only took strychnine every once in a while, or only you took a little bit, would that be okay? I mean, so how Katey (22:02) Yeah. Tony Stark Policci (22:05) When you're for your child to look at pornography, when you're ready for your child to potentially be targeted by a predator, when you're ready for your child to potentially be sex trafficked, these kinds of things really put it in perspective because those are all possibilities, right? Katey (22:20) Yeah. Well, and the average age of exposure to pornography is eight. The average age of trading nude photos is 11. So those are our mid elementary kids and are just entering middle school kids. And so this happens very young and it's not that kids are like, let me look up porn. It's that while I'm playing roadblocks, there's an adult in the chat room dropping a hyperlink to pornhub.com to hook me. so that I become a lifelong user, right? There are people that this is their day job. This is what they do behind the screen. They pretend to be a 10 year old and they're actually 55 and live in Texas. And so going back to your first question about like, what do parents need to know? You gotta stay with it. You gotta stay current and relevant. You have to access websites that give you this good educational information just so we can, you know, have those courageous conversations. Cause this is real. It doesn't matter what zip code I'm in. This is happening to the best of children. Tony Stark Policci (23:27) When I think about the impact, so let's talk about the company and what you guys do. There's a lot of research, a lot of data, things that you found out. What kind of impact does pornography have on a child's brain at the age of eight, at the age of 11? I know from my own life what happened to me, but tell me about it, what you've discovered. Katey (23:46) I yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's been likened to, you know, one shot of cocaine, right? And imagine that eight-year-old brain with one shot of cocaine. It's one thing if you're 28 or 21 and you're doing coke. You know, this is like just one hit of looking at a video. And then as you know, with like YouTube or Pornhub or any of these sites, they're reels. Right. And so you click on one and then that one's done and another one quickly pops up and you go down this rabbit hole. And it's just, I mean, it can impact so much with such a tiny brain and they're scared to tell us about it, you know? And so we have to have these big conversations starting at even three, four or five, six years old, where if you see something, you know, who are three adults that you can go to? If you can't come to me, if you don't want to come to me, because there's a lot of shame. And a lot of feeling like I'm a disappointment because I saw this thing, you know, identifying more trusted adults in their life because the impact of the brain. And as you know, with addiction, mean, these platforms are extremely addictive and it's easy for, you know, a seventh grade void. That's really where we see a lot of use is seventh and eighth grade is where we see a huge spike in access, accessing pornography and not telling parents about it. Tony Stark Policci (25:11) I know from, I was sexually abused at the age of eight for the first time and then multiple times after that. And I know that I was introduced to pornography from an older boy before I was out of junior high, maybe elementary, I'm not sure. I'm thinking it was like sixth, seventh grade, but I can't remember. And the combination of that sexual abuse and that trauma and everything set me up to really struggle with sex addiction, which took me years to get freedom from. And I went through this amazing course called a Valiant Man, which I discovered at a local church. It was really fantastic. But I learned things about the impact on the brain and these pathways. know, now we know a lot of the different data about dopamine and that comes from the studies that have been done with the devices and things like that. But For me years ago, I couldn't understand why this had such a grip on me, why it was so powerful. Of course, having gone through and done a lot of work about the trauma and everything else, I recognize that now, but years ago, I didn't even know. Number one, when it happened to me, I felt like I couldn't share about it. I couldn't go to my dad and tell him what had happened because I was ashamed. There's this sense that, what did I do to cause this? or what happens if I tell and then there's the threats, right? Don't tell anybody. Kids deal with these kinds of things all the time. So Kitty, what kind of advice would you give to parents who are struggling to communicate with their kids about mental health or about being open and honest about if something, if they have an experience, like how can you help somebody connect with their children around these so on very difficult topics. Katey (27:09) I think first and foremost, you have to be open-minded, right? I mean, there's still such stigma and shame around this topic and many others, suicide being another one, right? And being able to sort of arrange all of your own stuff that's happened to you in your life, things that have happened in your family, maybe it's happened to you, and doing the work yourself so that your children don't have to do the work for you. And also, Again, identifying at a young age, like if you can't come to me, who are two other people that you trust explicitly with information? And that could be a cousin. It could be an aunt or uncle, could be the custodian at school, but kids need to know if I can't come to you, I have these two other people. I'd also say like all of this talk around bodies. Like I have four daughters. who are currently 16 to 18 years old. All four of them have received an explicit photo either from a stranger or a classmate of genitalia between seventh grade and twelfth grade, right? And so it's not if it's when this happens, this is a crime in the state of Arizona. Like who can you come to? Here are some options. You can come to me, you can go to the principal, can go to the SRO at your school, you can go to your aunt. whoever it is, like you need to be open about a variety of topics. I always talk about the rule of five. Five years before your child's gonna be exposed to something, start talking about it, right? So when the girls were young, I was talking to them about vaping and it wasn't necessarily when they were five, I was like, let's talk about vapes. It was like, what do we put in our bodies? What don't we put in our bodies? Like see this aspirin in the medicine cabinet, that's for adults. We take that when we have pain and we only take one of them. And this is why, like having these teeny tiny conversations and then as they aged, filling in the blanks and you'd be surprised how much children know at young ages, because as you said, some older boy on the playground, your parents probably did all the things, right? We try to protect our kids, but you can do all the things I can tell you, go get bark, have a central charging station, get this router. You can do all the things and your kid gets on the bus and goes to school. and some kids show some porn and that will happen. And so having these conversations on an ongoing basis is absolutely paramount. Which means adults have to get, when I say the word porn in my presentation and it's the very first word I say, people freak out. They're like, my God, I only have a second grader. How can she be talking about porn? I'm like, well, he's seven. The average exposure is eight. And so we as adults have to get really current and relevant Tony Stark Policci (29:54) Right. you Katey (30:02) and comfortable with like, I've got some big stuff coming my way and I'm going to be preventative instead of reactive in how I respond. Tony Stark Policci (30:11) That's such good counsel. We're so hung up about the most normal topics, right? Yeah. Katey (30:21) Yeah, bodies, bodies, like nobody wants to talk about bodies. Intimacy, you know. Meanwhile, I mean, yeah. Tony Stark Policci (30:27) bodies, sex, substance use, like, if we ignore it, it'll go away. Your rule of two is great. I did that without knowing that I was doing it with my kids. I encouraged them to find other people and I encouraged them to talk to their youth pastors at the church that we used to go to. And they did, right? I remember one of my sons, Katey (30:44) Yeah, that's awesome. Tony Stark Policci (30:53) Like he had gone out for the night, was staying at a friend's house, called me the next morning and said, dad, I want to know if Matt Shively and I can come over. Matt was a pastor at his youth after church. And he came over to share with me that he had had a sexual experience with a girl the night before that he had actually been drinking. And this thing happened. And Katey (31:04) Yeah, yeah. Tony Stark Policci (31:23) He knew that I had talked to him. I mean, I talked to him about pornography. talked to him about premarital sex. I talked to him about drugs. I shared with him, you know, my history and all of this stuff because I was trying to like, you know, help them avoid some of the pain and the mistakes that I made, right? That's what we try to do. And just like you mentioned, we can do all the things and still. But when he came over and and shared this with me with Matt there and my reaction to him, was I basically got down on my knees and I went over and I hugged him and I said, I'm so sorry that you felt like you couldn't come to me alone with this. And I'm so grateful that you that you brought Matt and you did this. Right. And it just. Wow. It was a transformational moment for him to see that he had built up in his head that I was going to blow up, that he had me on this pedestal, that I was this, you know, church going guy and all upstanding at church. And so I was going to lose my mind that he did this. And so I was so grateful because those mentors that he had through his youth groups and friends and everything else, and they still have such a tight connection with people have been sources of strength and support where he couldn't come to me with things. And that's fine. I would love it if he could, but I would rather that he has somebody if he can't come to me. Katey (32:51) Well, and I find, you know, I have much like your household was, like, I have a bunch of teenagers over here a lot. And I find that one of the things that comes up, like, they will tell me all the things, like things I don't want to know too many details. like, I don't need to know that. I don't need to know that. But one of the common themes around like why they're telling me versus why they're telling their parents is because I am an objective party. I'm not emotionally attached to the situation. Tony Stark Policci (33:05) Yeah Right. Katey (33:19) and they feel like they can say anything and not be judged. And I think that is a central piece of what I hear often from kids about mental health struggles is if I tell my very spiritual parents that I'm struggling with this, they won't understand. If I tell my dad, you know, he's this upstanding, you know, mayor personally, there's a lot of talk within the teen community about my parents will judge me. And I think it's true. because I hear it, I'm around a lot of parents and I hear some of the judgmental things that they say and it goes back to that, know, it's not 1984, it's not 1974, it's not 1994. Like these kids are living in a very stressful world and some of that stress we are putting on them and we can alleviate that by doing this in partnership with them. Our kids are like so savvy. They're so much smarter than I was at this age. Like, I just think we don't give them enough credit sometimes. Tony Stark Policci (34:22) I agree. I, you know, I think back to when I was 14, 13, 14 years old and my dad just didn't get me. Now, one of the things that I do want to bring up is that, you know, it's wonderful if there's a two parent system and both people are working as a team and they're self aware and they're engaged and they're intentional. And I would go out on a limb and say, that's probably not the norm. That's probably a very low percentage. Katey (34:46) Yeah. Yeah. Tony Stark Policci (34:49) And then we have the families like when my mother died when I was eight and was shortly after that, that I experienced the abuse. My dad was going through his own trauma. know, my mother was a highly educated woman. She was a teacher. She was an author, very loving, very, I would say extremely, you know, functional and healthy. My dad had an eighth grade education. He was a hardworking, you know, Italian guy. Like he didn't know how to how to be a parent to two boys, a single parent to two boys and deal with the loss of this woman. So for me, I think that might've been a barrier to communicating with him because I already saw he was going through his own pain and suffering, but he was so busy just trying to work and take care of two boys. It was a struggle. So what about parents that have these circumstances? Katie, I know from my wife and who is a has served as a caregiver for teachers for many years. And from the families that I know who have been involved as teachers in the school system, that so many parents, there's so much drama and trauma going on with the schools, divorce and custody and all kinds of issues, right? There's very few families in my judgment, and you correct me if I'm wrong, that where they have like this balanced life, everybody is struggling trying to just get through the day. Katey (36:17) Mm-hmm. Tony Stark Policci (36:18) Do you have any recommendations for that parent out there that's going, my God, how can I do more? I'm already overwhelmed. Katey (36:25) Yeah, I think going, like I said, going back to basics, like we got to, you know, I go back to that. I don't know what year it was. Like you got to check yourself before you wreck yourself. And like all of the data, the Surgeon General last year in the last part of 2024 said like, parents have never been so stressed. have parents, more parents than we've ever had in crisis themselves. Tony Stark Policci (36:35) Mm. Katey (36:50) And so then you match that with the youth mental health data. And so I think we have to just get super clear and especially this time of year, like January, you're like, I'm gonna be the best parent ever, new year, new me, like all the things, right? We are who we are. But when you get really clear and a lot of clarity around what is important to us, like what can we cut out? What do we not need to do? I think like the basics is, you know, All kids need from us is do you see me? Do you hear me? Do you love me? That's all they need. Three very basic attachment needs. And I think we live, you and I, in a community that is very much trying to keep up with the Joneses. And for a long time, we had two-parent households, and now we have less of that. And we have very stressed financial positions going on, especially with our housing market and all the things. And so I think... We have to get clear with like, what's important to you? What are the basics of your family households? Because a lot of the things that we're doing, we don't need to be doing. I just, you know, we had a very serious situation here in town with some teen violence. And when you look at those families that were mostly very well resourced, those young men that were perpetrating violence against other young men and women in this town, were crying for, do you see me, do you hear me, do you love me? And even though they lived in $2 million homes, $3 million homes, whatever, $100,000 homes, like the theme of what happened here was, do you see me, do you hear me, do you love me? And that those are pretty basic needs that can be met if parents and caregivers are healthy. And so it does start with us. Tony Stark Policci (38:40) Right. You mentioned this five year rule. You also have another another important five that you talk about, which is your your five mile radius, the mayor of your five mile radius. Can you tell me a little bit about that? Katey (38:53) Yes. Oh, I don't, you know, so I was invited years ago, 2018, 19, to do a TEDx talk. And I, I really laughed at myself because after I left the school, I literally just like took the kids to school, went to the grocery store, came home and I was out on the road speaking. And at first it was really hard to like get speaking gigs. That's how you and I met. And so I just started thinking about like, what would I title this TEDx talk and like, who am I and what do I represent? And I think for me, we can all make a difference in our local town, in your home, in an organization. If you really just focus on what's important to you and what are you able to give, knowing that you're not in it to get something back from it. Like all of us can lend a hand, whether it's saying hello to someone on the street, it's helping somebody with their car, like whatever it is, you know, I titled it, I am the mayor of my five mile radius because that's really what I do, you know, now is like, I wake up every day and I'm like, how can I take care of my family? And what's one thing I can do today for my community? And I've sort of stuck to that for a few years now. And there will come a time when I take a rest. And retire from being the mayor of my five mile radius. But I really believe that we all have the capability and capacity to do it. But again, going back to everything we've said today, like what is your why? What is important to you and how can you see that through? And you know, you're doing that with this podcast. Tony Stark Policci (40:40) Right, yeah, that's true. I think about this phrase, grow where you're planted. And what I've noticed in the last, let's call it a decade, maybe longer, maybe less, is there is this sense that everybody wants to be phenomenal. Like we wanna be world changers. asked, I don't know how many people on a weekly basis, I ask them, what do you want to do? And their response is something like, I want to change the world. And that's great. Like who doesn't want to change the world? But have you impacted one person yet? Have you changed one? Because that's the place to start. And oftentimes I think that for me, you know, and I'm going to point the finger at me, I know that these grand Katey (41:12) Thank Tony Stark Policci (41:35) grandiose ideas that I've had many times have gotten in the way of me just making a massive difference in somebody's life by paying attention to how the person at the checkout counter was doing emotionally and just being kind. So I focus on that intentionally because the tendency for me is like, man, if I don't do something big and impact thousands of people, then I'm wasting my life. And that's not true. I can do both. And so I think it's important to start like who are you influencing? We're all influencers. Everybody wants to be an influencer, right? My gosh. Where do we start with our influence? It's in our home, right? It's with our partners, with our spouses, with our children, with our neighbors, with our community. And so Katey (42:17) Yeah, right. Mm-hmm. Tony Stark Policci (42:32) I think that's so important, this idea of being the mayor of your five mile radius, you know, caring for those people is super valuable. Katey (42:42) A couple of things that I started with my daughters years ago and like they still make fun of me for it, but I do it. So we lived in a neighborhood that was like not very, I don't want to say they weren't friendly, but like everybody sort of had their group and we moved in after that was already established. So there was this period of time where we were like not included. Tony Stark Policci (43:03) Okay. Katey (43:08) and so I started this game of sweet versus sour. And so we would, I would be taking them to school and we'd wave and like somebody wouldn't wave back. And I was like, okay, one point for the sour team. Then we'd wave again and somebody would wave twice. And so like two points for the sweet team and just like those types of things where you're just like, Hey, you know, waving, smiling. my girls make fun of me because when we go to restaurants, I always ask the server same, what's your name? Tony Stark Policci (43:09) Mm. Katey (43:37) You know, they're like, why are you asking his name? you know, and I'm like, because I want, he's serving our food. Like I want, I want good service and I want him to know he's valued. And so just simple things like that, right? Those are, don't cost you any money to wave high. Even, you know, there was one person she never ever waved back at me ever. She was always on the sour side, but I hope that she knew that like, I see you lady. I see you grumpy lady. You know. Tony Stark Policci (43:50) Right. Yeah. Katey (44:05) I mean, just those simple things, I think, can go a long way. Tony Stark Policci (44:09) One of the things that my wife and you know, Donna, that I really admire about her is that she will continually be friendly and positive to people, even if she gets no response or even if she gets a negative response, unless they're abusive. And she's had so many stories of breakthroughs. And when she comes home and tells me she's recently taken a position at a local school and she told me just before Christmas time, or maybe it was Thanksgiving, about this child who had been coming into the office and was there three, sometimes four days a week because they didn't bring in their ID and so they're getting fined, blah, Child never spoke, always had a frown, and Donna would always respond and call this child by name. And there was this breakthrough, you know, where the child opened up and actually started talking to her. and sharing about details in her life. it was, she was so excited about it. And it literally brought me to tears when she was talking because I was like, you know, I don't know that I would have had the tenacity to keep that up. I get offended. Like would people reject my kindness? You know, that's an issue that a character defect that I get to work on. Yet, you know, your beautiful game there, sweet and sour. That's a What a wonderful thing to model to your girls. Katey (45:41) Yeah. Well, and like I said, you sometimes it became a challenge, like, I'm going to get this person to wave back. Yeah, that was my tenacity. Like, you're going to wave back at me. It was fun. Tony Stark Policci (45:53) So Katie, have you always had this this natural bent towards positivity or is this something that you really have to work at? Katey (46:02) I mean, there have been moments and periods of my life that have been harder, but my mom is just like the most positive person. is, you know, 81 years old. She has lived this very full life. A few years ago, she was literally run over by a truck. She was out on her five mile walk and a guy saw her, but didn't see her and like ran her over and she was air flighted. Tony Stark Policci (46:25) my gosh. Katey (46:27) you know, she had several broken bones and the doctor's like, I don't know if I can save her ankle. And like through the whole thing, she was just so positive and I just, it's just always come from her. My dad is also a very positive person and has like these, you know, old man quips, right? know, quotes. So I think it's genetically, I was predisposed to, you know, positive DNA. Tony Stark Policci (46:55) That's fantastic. So, what are some some practical tips that maybe someone listening, you know, in another state doesn't have resource, maybe they're an educator, that they can do to help students that may be struggling with some of these issues or help parents? Do you have any suggestions? Katey (47:18) There's a couple of national organizations that I love. Youth Mental Health First Aid is an amazing course. It's free online. There's another one called QPR, which is a suicide prevention tool, but is also very just broadly youth mental health based. So, you know, in this day and age, like we all need to be trained on mental health, whether it's youth or adults. But those two organizations, Youth Mental Health First Aid and QPR are my Very favorite because they're so user friendly and they're free. Tony Stark Policci (47:51) great. Those are great tips. I'll make sure and link those. Katey (47:52) And something too that I don't know if a lot of people know about is like the 988 line. A lot of people think that's just for suicide. Like if you're suicidal, call 988. That's a national, what we call warm line. So you can call 988 and get support on, having a really bad day. Here in Arizona, we have Teen Life Line as well. So teenagers can call, text or email Teen Life Line. and get a response from a fellow teenager that's been trained with a master clinician next to them in case it is an imminent threat. So there are all these like great hotlines and warm lines and tools that we now have that are, you know, both apps as well as like old fashioned calls. Tony Stark Policci (48:43) didn't even know about that line. That's great information. Katey (48:45) Yeah, no, it's relatively new. It's about two years old. here in Arizona and anybody listening, would encourage you to, this is one thing you could do in your state or in your town. All of the children in our schools statewide, K through 20, so even college, have 9-8-8 and Teen Lifeline on the back of their student ID. So if you're enrolled in any school, especially middle, high school, and college, you have those. automatic resources on the back of your student ID. So that was legislation we passed in 2020. Yeah. Tony Stark Policci (49:18) Wow, that's great. And okay, is the 988 nationwide? Okay. Katey (49:23) nationwide. And it's zip code specific. So wherever you are, even if I have a 602 area code and I go to Boston and I'm struggling, it will go to the Boston dispatch. Tony Stark Policci (49:36) That's amazing. Great. What a wonderful resource. Thank you. Katie, what do you think is the most critical skill for educators today when it comes to supporting students and their well-being? Katey (49:37) Yeah, yeah, it's a great tool. Really just having ideas around coping. Like a lot of our kids, the mental health, like when you look at anxiety, anxiety is a protective factor. So anxiety is the, what if this happens, right? Your body, your central nervous system, your brain goes into the what if. Like being trained in how to sort of deescalate that, being trained in like what this student is having an issue today in my classroom. It may be a temporary issue, it may be ongoing. But there are two very simple things we can do, listen and validate. Again, going back to that super simple need, I want to be seen, and live. A kid walks into a classroom, puts his head down, has tears in his eyes. A teacher can get class started, go over, tap that student on the shoulder like, hey, I don't want to interrupt, like what's going on? I'm going to get class started, but after class, if you need me, I'm here. I want to listen, right? And so, Figuring out, we have to be so creative in this environment of, I've got 30 students in my class. They all have lots of needs. I'm only one person. When is that private moment? What is the strategy? And recognizing that these brains are still developing. And if a student is having a moment, they can't academically engage. So content is super important. You need to teach science today. But this kid isn't ready to learn. and being able to say to yourself as a teacher and educator, that's okay, that Kayden's not ready to learn today. I'm gonna get class started. I'm gonna do my thing. I'm gonna circle back to him and let him know that I'm here. I think just listening and validating is like, it's what one of my therapist friends calls the vitamin C to connection. What is the vitamin C? Listening and validation. Tony Stark Policci (51:40) What about teachers that I, one of the things I've observed, one of the things I've observed about the school system now is that teachers seem to be overwhelmed with behavior issues. And it's almost like they have been, the power to control the classroom has been stripped away from educators. And I've talked with friends who are in, in that position and they feel absolutely powerless to do anything in their classroom. Do you have any suggestions for how someone who really cares about wanting to help a child but they're in a situation where it's like managing chaos, hurting cats every day, that they can effectively respond to a student? Katey (52:25) I think, and I had this conversation this morning, I think we have to speak to leaders who are decision makers, who have the power and resources to fund more support, to fund a program, to really identify this kid is beyond our reach, but we have this program over here, right? I think we need leaders to be brave and current and relevant. And I'm just gonna use our school system. as an example, and I've said this to their face, so I have no problem saying it otherwise. If you are 50 to 80 years old, and you are a superintendent or on the governing board, and you don't know what Snapchat, TikTok, or Instagram is, then you can't make policy around it. You can't support teachers that have children in their classroom that are being exposed to all this stuff where this behavior may or may not come from. And so I think teachers need to partner, you know, We as parents have to help our teachers. We have to stop screaming at our teachers to be the nurse, the construction worker, the therapist, all the things, right? And we have to see them for who they are, which are beautiful humans doing the best they can with a lot on their plate and also advocate for funding and leadership. Our leadership really needs to step up and be allies to our teachers because we're, you know, I met with a few teachers this morning and two of the four at the table. are leaving the profession because of what you're talking And they're one, I mean, they're just amazing people. Tony Stark Policci (53:55) I think there's. There's a tremendous need for teachers. What I've experienced because of the people that I've known is that parents seem to send their kids to school and expect that the teachers are going to be the educators, the disciplinarians, the moral advisors, the behavior modifiers and And then, you know, if the kid gets in trouble or something, mean, they're immediately jumping to defend the child and screaming at the teacher. Like this personal responsibility to be a parent and to raise our kids. You know, I don't, I don't know how we can have a nationwide shift in this attitude of responsibility, but I do feel like it comes down to this leadership. to recognizing that as a parent, I am a leader and it's my responsibility to lead my child and not the school systems. Katey (55:10) Well, and as leaders and as parents creating a campus culture of dignity, where like everyone here has dignity, the children, the staff, the principal, the custodian, the, you know, crossing guard, like we're all in this together. We all have dignity and I'm going to uphold yours and you're going to uphold mine. There's a huge conversation about how disrespectful these children are. Have you seen the adults online? Have you seen their parents making comments like, Tony Stark Policci (55:35) Mm-hmm. Katey (55:39) You know, again, it all comes back to us. Maybe that should be our book. It all comes back to us. Tony Stark Policci (55:44) Yeah, you know, that's great title. And I know that social media has made a massive impact on this because, you know, how many times have I seen things on social media where if somebody said that to someone in person, they would probably get punched in the throat, you know, like, or someone would not be bold enough to say what they said. They can whip it out really quick in a comment. But this attitude of being disrespectful, impatient, and lacking compassion for one another as human beings is, I don't know, my judgment, I feel like it's an epidemic and it's trickled right down into our children. Katey (56:32) Well, yeah, and these kids, because they have devices and because they have a voice on social media and on video games, they want a voice at your kitchen table. They want a voice in their classroom. They want a voice in the hallway. And so what's being read by adults as disrespect is actually this huge, awesome movement with children where they're like, okay, I'm 15. And if you're asking me to respect you, I'm asking you to also respect me. And we both have dignity and we're having this conflict and we can disagree, but you're not calling me names. You're not shaming me. You're not publicly humiliating me. That's when kids go off the rail because they're like, you're asking me to respect you when you're speaking to me in front of my friends like that, right? And this generation isn't having it. They're like, nope. Tony Stark Policci (57:16) Hmm. Katey (57:29) And so what's being read as disrespect in my opinion, in most cases, not all is a group of kids who have a voice in this other place on this platform that are like, I'm going to use it. And so again, we have to step into this shift of like, they have a voice elsewhere. They want a voice in their classroom. They want a voice on the football field. They want a voice in the locker room. They want a voice when they're in trouble with you in a dignified manner. Tony Stark Policci (57:58) That's so powerful. One of the things that I remember from we first met years ago was you educated me about the brain development of youth, which was something I knew nothing about. And it was like revelation knowledge to me. To I mean, not only did it explain a lot of things about, you know, me when I was growing up and the impact of trauma and abuse and how that affects our development, but like the knowledge of how boys and girls brains develop at a different pace and the kind of cognitive abilities and logic processing and things that they have, like, I don't know if this is something that is now being more commonly understood by parents in the school system, the education system, because I'm not involved in that space. Is that something that more people know about? Do people understand? Katey (58:52) I think we're getting there, but like, I mean, you and I met nine years ago and it was, you know, sort of like just coming on the scene and I've seen, you know, I speak about it often and there are more books on it, but I still don't see it in like, edu 101. If I am a beginning teacher, the first class I should be taking is the young brain. That should be a course. And to my knowledge, it's not everywhere. There are some universities offering it. Tony Stark Policci (59:01) Yeah. Katey (59:22) Um, but it goes, it, it rules the world. Like every classroom is brain science. And if you are not steeped in brain science, you're going to have a really hard time managing your classroom. And you're going to have a really hard time being a parent. If you don't understand that boys brains do not develop until 26 to 32 years old, they're going to make some goofy, impulsive, jerky moves. And girls brains don't develop until 22 to 24. And so if you have a son and a daughter, you're gonna see probably a little bit of a difference in maturity, decision-making, expressiveness, and boys feel that everywhere they go in the world, especially nowadays. And so I think we've made some progress, but we're not where I think we need to be yet. Tony Stark Policci (1:00:10) And it's really crazy when you start to compare that data with the privileges that children are given at specific ages, right? Driving privileges, you know, being inducted into the military or eligible to go into the military and go be at war, you know, get married, have children, right? It's... Katey (1:00:32) Right? Yeah. I mean, I get calls every week from, you know, parents, especially of like 12 to 15 year old boys, like, listen to what he did. I'm like, uh-huh. Yeah. And they're like, aren't you right? And I was like, yeah, like he, has half of a developed prefrontal cortex. Like you are his prefrontal cortex. And so yeah, nothing about this story surprises me at all. You know? And not to say that girls don't make those same mistakes, they just make them in different ways. But we have a long way to go. If you have a nine-year-old, he's not even halfway there. If you have a 15-year-old, he's almost halfway there. Like, we have a long way to go. And they deserve for us to realize that and to really steep into this research behind how brains develop. Tony Stark Policci (1:01:23) Katie, do you have a simple resource that we could point people to where they could get a basic understanding of what this means and what it might mean to their children to relate to their child around this? Katey (1:01:35) Yeah. So one of the books that comes to mind is called The Whole Brain Trial. It's everything you want to know. It's an easy read. It's well written. It's not just research. It's just an easy read about the brain. When you and I met, I think I was working for Dr. Gurian. And so the book he wrote that I still love is Saving Our Sons. It's all about boys and their brains and how they develop. And then on the girlfriend, I love the book Untangled. It's just, again, all about girls and their brain development as well. Tony Stark Policci (1:02:09) Okay, great. So the first one was the whole brain. Whole brain child. Okay, great. I'll put those resources in the comments too. That's awesome. Katie, what are some signs that educators or even parents should look for to see that maybe a child might be struggling with their mental health or some other issue? Is there anything specific we can watch for? Katey (1:02:11) the whole brain child. I mean, it's different for everyone, but some commonalities, a drastic change in behavior. So if you have a kid that's like super positive and all of sudden, not so positive, if they're playing a sport and all of a sudden they want to quit, if they're making off the cuff comments about like, well, you guys wouldn't care if I was here or not. Just really watching both non-verbals, verbals, sleeping a lot, which is tricky with teenagers because they like to sleep a lot. So just really paying attention. Again, have to get off the devices, pay attention, appetite, sleep, grades. If any of those sort of pillars of life are going south, it's time to pay attention and get help. Tony Stark Policci (1:03:19) And how you, how does somebody approach those difficult conversations, especially if there's been an event like, like if the child's self-harming or if, if one of their close friends or even someone in their school or in the community that they know about has, you know, committed suicide, how, do you approach conversations when you start to notice? Katey (1:03:35) Yeah. Your school districts are amazing resources like ours. have a whole center called the Hope Institute. social workers at the school sites. If you don't have one at the school, there's typically one in the school district. Local nonprofits like Not My Kid, Community Bridges, Kid in the Corner. So every town has these sort of nonprofit organizations that specifically are for those types of things. Tony Stark Policci (1:04:03) So as a parent, could contact one of those organizations and say, hey, I'm struggling with communicating with my teen. Can you help me? Okay. Katey (1:04:09) Yeah. there's a whole army of help. You just gotta make that call. It's the difficulty is people are like, we got this, this'll pass. And then they wait too long and then they're in crisis. So I always tell people jump on it as soon as, know, even if you just go to two counseling sessions, it may be something very temporary, but we don't want it to get it too far down the road. It's very, very difficult in most states to dial back from crisis. Tony Stark Policci (1:04:41) You know, as a marketer for 30 years, one of the things I've observed is it's much harder to sell prevention than it is cure, right? You know, nobody wants to do anything preventative, but boy, when there's a crisis, suddenly you find all the time and the willingness to do everything when if we would just act early before there's actually a fire, we can make so much progress. that's, I don't know how to encourage people to be. Katey (1:04:49) Yes. Yeah, for sure. Tony Stark Policci (1:05:09) more willing to step into that. The other thing that you mentioned, know, with the three things, am I seen, am I heard, am I loved? Let them know that they're seen, they're heard, and they're loved. This requires empathy, right? So you're obviously very empathetic and, you know, my dad wasn't, he didn't model that. That's something I had to learn how to do. It's something I desperately needed. Katey (1:05:35) Right. Tony Stark Policci (1:05:38) And through the work and everything that I did, I was able to develop that. And sometimes it's so strong that it can be overwhelming to me. But how does a person cultivate that? How can you cultivate that in your interactions with youth? Because I see parents getting so frustrated. Like, my son won't, my daughter is. know, like, do you have any tips to help people with that? Katey (1:05:58) No. I mean, I think it goes back to what we talked about before. Drop the judgment. Like, who are you? Judgy Judgerton? Like, knock it off. Like, it's 2025. It is time to get real. It is time to recognize your kid is probably smarter than you. And that's a fantastic leadership quality. So digging in and really, even if you're not the most empathetic person, active listening. Like, one of the great acronyms that I've learned from an author named Ned Johnson is wiggy. What I got is, so your kid's like, and then she said, then did it. And so just listening and like, okay, what I got is wiggy. What I got is you're really mad at Chloe because she excluded you at the lunch table. And just really starting the conversation with I heard you, I saw you and I love you and I'm here and I'm not here to fix it, but I'm here to listen. If you want me to help you fix it, I can do that. First and foremost, I'm here to listen. And I think that's the first quality of empathy is actively listening. Tony Stark Policci (1:07:02) That's a great acronym. Everybody can remember that. Wiggy. It sounds much, much more fun than the one that I use, which is like what I heard you say was. Yeah. So I love that. Katey (1:07:03) Yeah, we did. Yeah, we did. and Yeah, yeah, which is a great one. But I think Wiggy is like 20, 20. Tony Stark Policci (1:07:18) Wiggies are great because we can say that to our kids, right? Like, you know, this is my wiggy. You what I got is. Yeah. And you can ask that from the trial too, you know, what's the wiggy you got from what I said? Right. Love that. What do you think is the most significant barrier to accessing? Katey (1:07:21) Yeah, yeah, but I got us. Yeah, 100%. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Tony Stark Policci (1:07:43) resources for young people today. I mean, you gave some great ones locally, but what do you think? Katey (1:07:46) Yeah. It's just, I mean, that's what I'm trying to create around here is a central hub of resources where it's just one page user friendly. A lot of like these resources are working in silos, even though they all do the same thing. There's not one clearing house. And I think that's what we need. And so they all have these own websites, right? But first you have to know about them and then you have to go to them. And so I think we. If anybody wants to do something in their community, it's centralizing resources on one page. Because when you're in crisis or you're having an issue with your child, your brain's not firing right either, right? And so we don't want to have people chasing around. We need one central hub for resources. And so I think we're doing a better job at that, at the school district level, but we need to do that and just get them all together. Tony Stark Policci (1:08:41) Is this what bark does? Is this one of the one of their goals? Katey (1:08:44) Yes, on the front of internet safety. Absolutely. Yes. Yeah. Tony Stark Policci (1:08:49) Okay. How can we, like, how can we create this centralized hub? Like how could people listening be a part of that? Katey (1:08:56) think we have to get to the top. We have to get to our legislators and our Arizona Department of Health and our access, like any governmental agency that serves children. Everybody's doing great work, but we just have to put it all together. But I think we have to start at the top. Tony Stark Policci (1:09:01) . Katey (1:09:16) which is sometimes slower than molasses. Tony Stark Policci (1:09:16) Makes sense. Yeah. So moving forward, we're in the age of AI. We've got, you know, all this technology at our fingertips. What innovations or changes do you hope to see happen in the field of mental health and youth education and technology? Katey (1:09:23) Yes. there's already some, yeah, there's already some technology out there that can like detect when someone is suicidal or depressed. it hasn't come on the scene yet, but I'm hopeful that we'll have some sort of system where you can opt in that if you are on your phone and you are researching something like how to kill yourself, how to tie a noose, which our children are doing, that that would send out some sort of alert. to your caring circle. So we at BARC do that for ages zero to 18, but over 18, which we have a population of kids 15 to 24 that are really struggling, you would have to opt into something like that. So I'm hopeful that might be something coming down the pike. Tony Stark Policci (1:10:27) You said earlier that at some point you're going to retire from being the mayor of your five mile radius. And I'm wondering what's ahead for you? Like, what is your vision for like the immediate future and long term? Katey (1:10:43) Yeah, I don't, that's a really good question. I've been thinking about that lately. I know I want to be near water, so it will probably mean leaving Arizona and going to a lake or an ocean. But I really just want to continue helping, you know, consulting with families and raising awareness. Like I still see myself in this sort of capacity. But probably also, you know, enjoying things like pickleball and golf. Tony Stark Policci (1:11:16) I love Pickleball. Yeah, it's so fun. How many books have you authored? Katey (1:11:18) Yeah. Yeah. just one. Just one. Yeah. Tony Stark Policci (1:11:27) Just one. Yeah. Do you see any more books in your future? Do you like writing? Katey (1:11:33) I love writing and I joke around all the time about writing a book, but I just haven't made the time to do it. Maybe that's what I should focus on. Tony Stark Policci (1:11:42) Well, maybe, you know, sitting by the water will inspire you to write, right? Yeah. Katie, as we're coming to the end of our time here, I want to ask you a question that I ask all my guests, and that is, who do you want to be a hero to? Now, I kind of had a judgment about who you've wanted to be a hero for, but at this point in your life, and we're not going to talk about your age. Katey (1:11:45) Yes, yes, yes, yes, for sure. Tony Stark Policci (1:12:12) But at this point in your life, you already said it earlier in our discussion. But what, who do you want to be a hero to now? Katey (1:12:12) you Yes. I mean, first and foremost myself, because if I am not well, then I can't take care of others, right? So I think, you you get to this point and you're like, I have to take care of myself first. So that would probably be first, but obviously my girls and my family as they continue to grow into their own young womanhood, absolutely first and foremost. Tony Stark Policci (1:12:29) Right. How would you define that? How would you define being a hero? Katey (1:12:54) my gosh, just like having a purpose beyond yourself, you know, really seeing beyond just your own kind of immediate community and reaching out. just really think heroes are pretty selfless people. Tony Stark Policci (1:13:13) Yeah, I, oftentimes we look at people that do a heroic thing, right? They've run into a burning building and, I think sometimes for me, it's a matter of pushing through something that I don't want to do or not quitting when everything is telling me, you know, I can't go another day. and Katey (1:13:37) Yeah. Tony Stark Policci (1:13:39) Again, I kind of touched on this earlier when I was talking about doing grandiose things. Right now, as we're doing this interview, it is the beginning of the year, right? We're just a couple days into the new year and all of the resolutions are fresh in people's heads. And everyone wants to make these big changes. And that's great. Most people will not. And I think focusing, if we can focus on micro changes. small, measurable progress, right? If we can make percentage increases on a weekly or a monthly basis at the end of the year, that all adds up and there's there, that is a massive change, but it can come by taking little steps. So I hope that people are encouraged to do even something little, right? Like maybe you're trying to change the way you communicate with your child. Start by doing one thing, like asking them, you know, how are you today? Katey (1:14:23) That's it. Tony Stark Policci (1:14:38) telling them that you love them one more time, maybe complimenting them about something rather than criticizing about something. Small little changes can make a massive difference over an extended period of time. Katey (1:14:51) Absolutely. Tony Stark Policci (1:14:52) Yeah. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you wish I would have? Katey (1:14:57) gosh, no, we covered a lot. You're awesome. Tony Stark Policci (1:15:03) Well, I so appreciate you coming on and talking to us today. You've dropped so much wisdom and I know it's going to help people. Katie, how can people find out more about the work that you do? I know that they can Google your name and they'll find all kinds of great content. But is there any particular place you would like them to go online or where they can connect with you? Katey (1:15:10) Well, thanks. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, you can find more out about B.A.R.K. at bark.us. And then if you're looking for me myself, I'm at katimcpherson.com. Tony Stark Policci (1:15:35) Okay, and it's B-A-R-K dot U-S. Katey (1:15:38) Correct. Tony Stark Policci (1:15:39) OK. Katie, thank you so much for being here today. I have always been impressed with you ever since we first met. I'm grateful for the work that you do and the compassion that you have and the intention that you have and just the role model you are. So thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom with us on the podcast. Katey (1:15:48) Thanks. Thanks for inviting me. It was so nice to spend time with you today. Tony Stark Policci (1:16:04) All right. All right. I'll talk to you soon. Take care and keep up the good work.