Tony Stark Policci (00:00)
Risa, thank you so much for being here with me. Listeners, you've just heard the incredible introduction to my guest today. And this is going to be an exciting interview. Risa, I'm so glad that you're here. Thank you so much for being here.

Risa August (00:13)
I'm so grateful to be here, Tony. Thank you so much for having me on your show.

Tony Stark Policci (00:18)
Yeah, well, you I want to get started just by asking you the simple question. How do you describe yourself today? Who are you and what do you do?

Risa August (00:27)
Well, I...

I'm excited to share that I'm now an award-winning author. I never expected that to be one of the things I'd be mentioning today, but that feels extremely exciting and I'm super proud of it. I've also become a speaker and patient advocate for rare pituitary tumors and

And I'm also a Gestalt practitioner or coach, if you will, on the side.

Tony Stark Policci (00:55)
Yeah, so I'm going to start kind of at the beginning of your life before we get into this amazing story that you have. So what were you like as a kid? Were you like the nerdy outcast? you the popular girl? What was Little Risa like?

Risa August (01:11)
gosh, that's a great question. I was super adventurous and I was inspired by the Indiana Jones movies. I loved being out on digs and playing in the dirt and our little creek that ran behind our house and going on adventures. I was also very

compassionate child. I cared a lot for people and I was the type of kid that didn't make fun of other kids or tease other kids and I didn't go along with other people doing that either.

And unfortunately, sometimes that did put me on the fringes. I wanted to be friends with everyone and I wanted everyone to get along. I had a fairly dysfunctional upbringing in my household. And I remember as a child, I just wanted peace and harmony. And yeah, so that's a great question.

Tony Stark Policci (02:21)
Yeah, you know, so I can relate to that too. tended to, and today I still am kind of a peacemaker, although I can have a tendency to get in there and really be very blunt with people and get in people's faces when I feel like I need to. But ultimately I want everybody to like me and I want people to get along. I don't like to create, you know, division and lack of unity. there was, maybe there's some of that commonality there with the dysfunction that

that growing up with makes you want to not have chaos in other areas of your life. when did you get the towards, you're obviously, you've become a bad-ass athlete. When did your passion for sports and endurance stuff begin?

Risa August (02:52)
Yeah, definitely, definitely.

you

I remember in my early 20s, I think as soon as I turned 21, I dropped out of college because I just wasn't, I...

I had always wanted a degree in archeology, but I was pressured into a business management degree and I was very unhappy. just didn't enjoy it. I didn't enjoy being in college. I was also putting myself through college, working full time, and it became too much. And so I dropped out after about two years and that kind of became...

began a traveling journey for me. And that's when my whole world opened up. I left my hometown and started experiencing all the different things the world has to offer. And it wasn't until about 10 years later where I just, I seriously woke up one morning and I said, you know, I'm going to go back to school.

I kind of got like all the traveling and adventure out of my system and I don't know if I was ready to kind of be more grounded or stationary, but I was like, I'm going to go back to college and finish my degree in geography. And I also started looking at other parts of my life and I got a part time job at a swimming pool like a YMCA or a

recreation center and I would see these athletes coming in just swimming for like, I don't know, it seemed like hours. And I finally stopped one of the swimmers and I said, what are you training for? And they said, a triathlon. And I was very curious. And he said, you should get your, he's like, do you know how to swim and run? I'm like, yeah, yeah. It's like, well,

you should get yourself a bike and try one. And that was kind of the onset of my, I did my first sprint triathlon and I was hooked and, that was kind of the start of, it was, I had this whole mindset of like whole body health, like physically, emotionally, mentally, I was kind of stepping into this new phase in my life. And so,

Yeah. So fitness became a big part of that.

Tony Stark Policci (05:31)
So did you say you traveled for, was it 10 years?

Risa August (05:36)
It was about 10 years where I would, I would find work in different countries or different states throughout the U.S. And I might work there anywhere from a few months to a couple years. And then I finally, like I said, I was working for an environmental center guiding wilderness trips and

the season was coming to a close and I just remember thinking like, don't like, is this what I want? Is this what I want to continue doing? And I felt really insecure about not having a degree that really weighed on me, like that I never finished that thing in my life. I have a whole different perspective on that now looking back, but back then I felt really insecure about it. So I just remember waking up thinking,

I'm going to go back to school and I maybe I in some way I felt and maybe that'll give me some insight on where I'm going next, like what I want to do. And and so that's what I did. I was living in Maine at the time I packed up my car because at that time everything fit in my car that I owned and I went back to Ohio where I started college and I went back to the same college.

to finish my degree.

Tony Stark Policci (06:59)
Excellent. this is like you're 30 years old now, close to 30 years old. Now, prior to this, I didn't hear you mention any of this, but was there a lot of athleticism during the travel? Was there a lot of hiking? Were you doing any kind of endurance or training or fitness during all this time when you were traveling?

Risa August (07:02)
Mm-hmm, yeah.

gosh, yes, I got really into backpacking, mountaineering, cross-country skiing.

gosh, canoeing, white water, or sorry, ocean kayaking. Again, I became a wilderness guide and guided backpack trips and canoe trips and things like that. We'd be out like three weeks at a time out in the wilderness. I was, yeah, I was, and I guess I never looked at that as athleticism, but.

But I guess it is, yeah, it is. It's just a different form of it. So yeah, I guess I was. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Tony Stark Policci (07:59)
Very active lifestyle, very active, yeah. And so as a 20-something-year-old, you're out taking groups of people out for three weeks at a time, camping, teaching them about surviving in the wilderness, all of these different things. And you said your degree is in geography. That's what you're studying. So you're very interested in topographical stuff, plants, animals, nature, different.

Risa August (08:21)
Mm-hmm.

Tony Stark Policci (08:29)
Did you teach them how to, like what to eat in the wilderness? Like if you're stranded out here, you can get water here, you can get food here.

Risa August (08:36)
Well, I certainly wasn't a Bear Grylls or anything, we did do some of that. We taught people about the plants and nature. For example, one of my gigs was a ridge runner in Baxter State Park in northern Maine. So I'd run from peak to peak all day.

Tony Stark Policci (08:40)
haha

Risa August (09:03)
one for safety but also educating people about the fragile alpine tundra flora and fauna like on the top of the mountain and so yeah there was definitely an educational piece there as well like I you know I lived in Australia for a while also teaching earthen education and stuff like that so there was a mix of all of it but

But I wouldn't say intense, know, like some of those intense shows out there, like Naked and Afraid. It wasn't anything like that, but.

Tony Stark Policci (09:36)
Yeah. So you mentioned this ridge runner thing. is a ridge runner? You spend all day long running back and forth between two mountain peaks?

Risa August (09:44)
Three mountain peaks. Yes. So and that and that was in Baxter State Park. So Mount Katahdin, which is the terminus of the Appalachian Trail. And then there's I believe it was South Peak if my memory serves me well and Pamola Peak. And I would just run across all three all day. One for safety, two.

to check in with thru-hikers and other hikers. Not everyone was a thru-hiker or an Appalachian trail hiker. And again, for safety, like I had to be the last one off the mountains. So I had to make sure everyone else was off the mountain and I'd be the last one down. And I would also take like weather readings and all kinds of things.

Tony Stark Policci (10:33)
Wow, that sounds like a really adventurous job.

Risa August (10:36)
It was and I was super fit. I was super fit during that time for sure.

Tony Stark Policci (10:41)
Yeah. Okay. So you come from this period being you're like super fit. Now you're swimming. You get this idea from one of these guys, you know, about doing a triathlon. Did you immediately start training for one?

Risa August (10:53)
I did. I hadn't had a bike in years, I think since junior high when I had my blue 10 speed. So I was like, where do I get a bike? And I knew my friend had a mountain bike. And I was like, can I borrow this? And it was this big, it was way too big for me. I hadn't been on a bike in years.

and but he was like sure borrow it use it as long as you want and so I did I did my first triathlon on an oversized mountain bike and had no clue about anything totally cramped coming in from the bike ride but but finished nonetheless and it was truly such an exciting feeling to cross that finish line for sure.

Tony Stark Policci (11:41)
Yeah, I bet. And so how many of those did you do before we're going to talk about the shift that you had in your life? But how many did you do from that point forward? Was it something you continued?

Risa August (11:54)
gosh, yes, I can't even begin to count how many I did. I started signing up for every series I could. I started lengthening my distances. So I'd moved from sprint to Olympic distance to half Ironman distance. And then finally full Ironman was like, that was my goal to get to the full Ironman triathlon distance. so it took...

several years to get there. It wasn't like boom, all of a sudden, June I'm doing a sprint and then August I'm doing an Ironman. No way. But it took years of kind of getting up to that.

Tony Stark Policci (12:38)
Okay, and along the way you got married, like had lots of life things happen. Is that accurate?

Risa August (12:45)
Yes, yep. eventually, yep, I got married in my early 30s and my husband at the time was also, he was very adventurous. He was a skydiver and base jumper and mountain biker and skier and bow hunter and fly fisherman. Like he was kind of the same as far as

liking adventure and outdoors.

Tony Stark Policci (13:17)
OK, so you're living this very active life. You're in great shape. Lots of outdoor activity, lots of vigorous, competitive kind of stuff. And then the shift happens. When did you start having health issues? And what was the first sign that something wasn't right?

Risa August (13:29)
me here.

Yeah.

Well, it was after my first Ironman race, actually. I completed my first Ironman race and it was like within a year following that. So completed my Ironman race and then I'm like, okay, what next? And my friend invited me on a 500 mile cycling journey the next summer around Oregon and

Tony Stark Policci (13:41)
Really?

Risa August (14:01)
I was like, that sounds awesome. Like I wanted to do the next thing. And so I began noticing changes in my body. Like first it was very physical changes like extreme weight gain and pain and fatigue. there were other things going on that I didn't associate with.

you know, my condition until looking back. For example, I had braces a couple times. I had to have braces put back on and I didn't know down the line that that was going to connect to my disease. But so there was all kinds of like kind of strange odd things going on and I kept trying to find

I kept being dismissed by doctors and then I kept trying to find ways to maybe dismiss them or explain them away myself. so that's kind of where it started.

Tony Stark Policci (14:55)
Okay, so now having read some of your story.

Just scratch my eye. I don't like to do that. So having read some of your story, I know you went from being this Ironman athlete to barely being able to get out of bed. So we're going to get into a little bit of what happened here. you had this transition. And you said you kept being dismissed by doctors.

What was the lowest point during this process? And did you ever just feel hopeless, like giving up?

Risa August (15:29)
gosh.

Yeah, I think the lowest point reflecting back, I the lowest point for me was

One, I actually joined OA, Overeaters Anonymous, because I thought, okay, if the doctors say my blood works fine and there's nothing wrong with me, I must be doing something wrong. So I was finding, I was putting myself on strict diets.

Tony Stark Policci (15:41)
Yeah?

Risa August (15:56)
I was, I had more hair growth, like on my arms and stuff. And I was like, that's my Romanian heritage. I mean, I started really thinking, I feel myself getting a little emotional around this, but I started feeling like, okay, maybe I'm a hypochondriac. Maybe there's nothing wrong with me and I'm just making it up or it's in my head or I'm the cause of it.

And so I don't know if I would have looked at it as a low point, but I've really felt like...

Okay, this is... It must be me. It must be me.

Tony Stark Policci (16:37)
Yeah, that's a see that sounds really painful when I listen to you, because I think that there's probably a lot of people listening to this right now who have gone through something similar or maybe going through it right now where they're second guessing themselves is like, you know, we go to these people that we consider the experts, right? And I know from reading your book that you have always had a very strong intuitive sense of self.

of being in connection with your body. And so you knew something wasn't right, but you couldn't figure out what. And you're going to these experts who saying everything's fine, everything's good. But intuitively, you know that's not right. So I think the questions I would start asking myself, and I mean, I have done some of this in my own life, is am I crazy? Is there something wrong with me? No.

Am I generating this? Because we know that the impact of the brain and what we think, the kind of thoughts that we have, and we'll talk about your limiting belief perspective and how you work with people with that.

It's like, know that I can impact the way that I feel by the way that I think. And it's almost like if you're somewhere and somebody says, I've got ants on me, and suddenly they're covered in ants and you start to feel like, they on me too? So there's a little bit of the mind impacting that. But the frustration that I think we feel when we go to these experts and they just can't find anything and nothing gets any better.

It sounds painful to me as I listen to that that was a very difficult time. So eventually, you go to doctor after doctor after doctor. You're continuing to figure this out, going to Overeaters Anonymous for a problem you didn't have. But you find somebody, this amazing woman, who didn't stick to the script. Right?

Risa August (18:39)
Yes, but not before I finally found my voice and I fast forward seven years and I decided I was going to train for another Ironman race. And after that Ironman race that I barely got through,

and then I could barely get off the couch after the race. Again, started looking at adrenal fatigue and the HPA axis. And there's even something called post Ironman depression. I started looking at things and then I started noticing severe headaches, severe, severe headaches. I was barely sleeping a couple hours a night. They were so bad.

kept drinking more water because I was told I was dehydrated and over training and I need to drink more water and these headaches would never go away. So I finally went into my primary care doctor's office and said, hey, I, you know, I never come to the doctor, but I feel like something's wrong and I'd love to get an MRI. And she is like, no.

I don't think you need one. Your blood works fine. We've tested it several times and I'm like, no, I think I just like to rule it out. Rule anything out. I hope to God nothing's wrong. No, I don't think, I don't think you need one. And besides they're expensive. And old Risa was about to just say, okay, I trust you. You're the one making the call, but something in me just

I don't know if it was divine intervention or someone on my side that day, but I just said, order me the MRI. And one week later, I was told I had an enlarged pituitary, Go see an endocrinologist, and I had no idea what that meant. And so then I meet my endocrinologist.

And she was fabulous, just super compassionate, like actively listening to me, facing me, looking me in the eye when we're talking. And then suddenly she's pointing to a computer screen and there's my skull and right in between the eyeballs is a big gray blob. And she's like, this has to come out.

And furthermore, I'm 99 % sure I know what you have. And that explained all these symptoms I was having, extreme weight gain, the hair growth, the bone changes, the braces. And I remember thinking, I wasn't even thinking about brain surgery, that I had to brain surgery. I was like, my God, and here I am getting emotional again.

So you mean to tell me I'm not crazy? She's like, you're not crazy. And I just lost it. I just felt so validated in that moment.

Tony Stark Policci (21:41)
Yeah.

So, okay, take me back to a little bit of some of the symptoms that you went through, some of the things that you struggled with over those years when you see your body changing so that anybody that may be experiencing some of these symptoms, because on the one hand, we're gonna get to the name of what you were diagnosed with here, but on the one hand, that's said to be kind of a rare disease, but on the other hand, it's really not so rare. It's just...

It's not diagnosed, correct? So let's talk about some of those symptoms. What are the physical things you went through?

Risa August (22:14)
All right, yes.

Yes, well they get and they can certainly vary from person to person but for me it was extreme weight gain like 40 pounds despite training for Ironman's.

Tony Stark Policci (22:32)
It's crazy because you're like a super active person, right?

Risa August (22:36)
very active, very stringent with my diet. And the waking is almost like an all over puffiness. It's like rings don't fit because my fingers are so puffy. My shoes don't fit. I had to constantly get bigger shoes. I had to constantly buy newer clothes and bigger sizes. And so for me, that was the

big thing that because the puffiness feels like a gluten or sodium overdose. Like, you know, that uncomfortable feeling you have of maybe after a night of having a few drinks or eating too much, I don't know, food that had sodium in it or something, but it's like extreme. And again, I had braces a couple of times.

Tony Stark Policci (23:10)
Mm.

Risa August (23:28)
the hair on my arms became thicker and coarser and severe headache was one. And I started noticing, I got really into weightlifting and CrossFit. So, but I started noticing really kind of unusual joint pain, not your...

not your typical like, I must have done something funny. It was unusual joint pain and I'm not even sure how to better articulate that. But that was a few of my symptoms. And another symptom is...

it's like sleep apnea is another one. Maybe excessive snoring. I don't think I had that but I know a lot of a lot of people do and and then there's other things that go on inside your body as well that once you are diagnosed you have to get checked for. So like polyps on your colon and an enlarged heart and

you know, so I have to have like echocardiograms done and things like that. So it really varies from patient to patient, but for me that was a lot of what I was dealing with.

Tony Stark Policci (24:39)
OK, so you're sitting here with this endocrinologist that says she thinks she knows what's going on. And then she gave it her name, right? It's aquamegaly. Is that the term?

Risa August (24:49)
Mm-hmm.

Acromegaly, yes, and bravo for being able to pronounce that because I think it took me a couple weeks before. Wait a minute, can you say that again? Yes, acromegaly, yep.

Tony Stark Policci (25:04)
And so this is caused, it's always caused by the tumor, a tumor in the particular spot in the brain or...

Risa August (25:13)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, so what's believed to be more common than we realize is tumors on the pituitary gland or pituitary tumor. And they can cause, I think it's into the hundreds of different kind of diseases that impact your hormones. And your hormones impact everything, everything that happens in your body.

And so I happen to have the disease associated with the tumor called acromegaly. and mine is, acromegaly is where excessive amounts of growth hormone are dumped into your body. And it's like lethal doses.

Tony Stark Policci (25:55)
So had you not found this doctor, mean, it's quite, your foreseeable future would have been, this would have caused your death. Now, were they able to operate on the tumor?

Risa August (26:09)
Yes. Yeah.

So yeah, so I went and opted for surgery and they got out as much as they could. There's some residual tumor wrapped around my carotid artery and close to my optic nerve and they don't mess with either one of those. But you don't know how the surgery went until you have to wait about three months.

Tony Stark Policci (26:35)
Yeah.

Risa August (26:43)
following surgery till everything heals up. And then you get another MRI to see how successful the surgery was. because it takes so long to find these tumors, oftentimes the outcome is similar to mine, where it's grown into this area that houses your carotid artery. It's called the cavernous sinus.

and it becomes inoperable. But unfortunately, it's still doing its job dispensing the growth hormone and causing the rare disease acromegaly. So then the treatment continues to get that under control so that I could, you know, or anyone could continue on and live a longer life.

Tony Stark Policci (27:32)
So if a tumor is inoperable, and you may not know the answer to this, but I'll ask you anyway, then is there a protocol that can help counteract the effects of what's happening to the pituitary gland?

Risa August (27:48)
So yeah, and I still feel like I'm learning. So I have the option to go on for radiation treatment or skip radiation treatment and try different medications. Some of the medications control the growth hormone output and some of them attack the tumor and essentially shrink it.

there's no guarantees with radiation treatment or medications working. I eventually, after some reluctance and after initially saying no, I eventually opted for radiation treatment, which could take about 10 years to start seeing the effects of. And so in the meantime, I'm on medication or trying to find medications that work for me.

Tony Stark Policci (28:29)
Wow.

Risa August (28:36)
and I've been on multiple medications at this point. And it sounds like I'm a bit of an anomaly. We're not finding one that's quite working. The one I'm on now seems to be working so far. So fingers crossed there. Some people find a medication right off the bat and it works. It works great for them. And that's what they're on the rest of their lives. So.

It's really such a similar stories from patient to patient, but very individual experience.

Tony Stark Policci (29:09)
Yeah. OK, so obviously you've been through hell with this acromegaly, but I'm going to ask you a little bit of a weird question. Now, what's the most embarrassing or awkward situation that you found yourself in before getting diagnosed?

Risa August (29:26)
gosh. awkward or embarrassing. don't know.

Tony Stark Policci (29:29)
Yeah, you know, it's like this thing is causing stuff in your body. It's causing you to feel things. It's causing you to appear differently. There's obviously, I mean, it's hitting your hormones, impacting the way that you look, maybe the way that your skin was, I don't know. You say braces, I'm guessing that was because your teeth were changing. You talked about excessive hair growth on your arms. You know, was there anything that

Risa August (29:50)
Yeah.

Tony Stark Policci (29:56)
Like you found yourself in this situation and you were like, this is just weird or this is just embarrassing. What the hell?

Risa August (30:03)
Yeah, okay, yes, thank you. Yeah, that helps. I mean, yeah, I mean, a bunch of that was embarrassing. I wouldn't say the most embarrassing thing in the world, but like, there were several things, you know, I was a little embarrassed about the hair growth.

on my body and I was, you know, the oldest person in the orthodontist's office. But yeah, I started noticing this big bony lump growing out of the side of my head. And so I would get embarrassed when I'd go get my hair cut and you know how they shampoo your head and they rub it and massage it and I would kind of feel

Well, I would feel self-conscious about that bony lump. And then of course, I think I'm a nine and a half or 10 shoe size now. I was always a seven and a half growing up. it's, things like that could easily.

made me feel insecure, I guess. And that's a big part of this disease as well. There's not just the physical aspect of it. There's very much a mental aspect and challenge to it as well.

Tony Stark Policci (31:21)
When somebody is struggling with something that clearly looks different than everybody else, it's really easy to have those judgments like, what are people going to think? And how do I look? And this is terrible. And also, because it's not something you can control. This is just happening to you. And I think there's a sense of powerlessness as well as just

embarrassment.

Risa August (31:44)
Yeah, absolutely. And I did, I became insecure. I would study my face in the mirror and started noticing how the bone structures had changed in my face. I even remember examining photos of me and my friends. And I was like, why do I, why am I like towering over them? Like, why do I look?

so big. I actually was pretty mean to myself. I'd say like I look like an ogre next to them and you know and that's harsh. That's harsh. So there was a lot of healing through all of that and now I'm fabulous. I didn't you know I don't shifted my whole mindset around that but man it was definitely a struggle at first.

Tony Stark Policci (32:14)
Mmm.

Hmm.

Yeah.

You know, somebody told me once, I think I shared with you that, you know, I've got a lot of experience in recovery from addiction and trauma. And somebody told me once, if anybody treated you as bad as you treat yourself, I don't think you would stick around. And it really landed with me, you know. And I think that's a very common thing that people can struggle with, actually, being kind and loving to ourselves.

Now, of course, a lot of people are on the other end of that. They're way too full of themselves and don't really have a great perspective. this beating ourselves up and being mean and self-deprecating is a terrible, terrible way to live. It's horribly painful. But if you could go back in time, because I'm thinking about this now, and tell your pre-diagnosed self one thing.

Risa August (33:04)
I agree. I agree.

Tony Stark Policci (33:26)
know what would it be and do think you would listen?

Risa August (33:29)
my gosh.

Gosh, I mean, there'd be a whole list of things. But I would.

Tony Stark Policci (33:34)
in

Risa August (33:35)
Yeah, I feel some emotion around this too.

What keeps coming to mind is just let go. And what I mean by that is I would try to control things in my environment so much.

I would try to control the people in my lives. I had to have control of everything. I had to be the best at everything. I had to be perfect at everything. I had to know everything. So if someone knew a little bit about something, well, I knew a lot about it. man, looking back, how exhausting. so just let go, just, you know.

be happy be late. I sorry I'm struggling to put it into words but just allow there's so many things there's so many things I can't narrow it down to one.

Tony Stark Policci (34:31)
Well, you know what I'm hearing, if this doesn't resonate with you, please let me know. But what I'm reading kind of between the lines here is find some acceptance and some self-love.

in this process.

Risa August (34:41)
Yes, beautifully put. Yes. Yes.

Tony Stark Policci (34:44)
That seems to be the hardest thing for me at times. So do you think that you would listen to that back then or did you have to go through what you went through to get to the place where you're at now?

Risa August (34:56)
I definitely had to go through what I went through to get to where I am now. And that's how, I mean, that's the gift in it. I wouldn't have, I would have been like, no way, you gotta keep going, pushing harder, doing better. This forced me, forced me to stop.

and really look at my life and ask, know, is this working? Is all of this working? And so I really do feel like it was the silver lining, the gift. I feel I'm a better person for it.

Tony Stark Policci (35:33)
Now Risa, at the beginning of our interview today, you mentioned that you had a dysfunctional family. And I'm wondering if you and I have something in common where part of that dysfunction was feeling like I always had to prove myself. I was never good enough. I was often degraded and demeaned and made fun of for

My mother was a writer. She wrote books on how to teach kids to read by the phonetic method. And that was, you know, like in the late 60s, early 70s, and they were still used and they're probably still being used, but I know they were still being used widely up until 2012. So I was reading before I was in kindergarten. I was very articulate as a kid.

My mom passed away when I was eight, but my dad, that was one thing that just bugged the heck out of him because he was a hardworking Italian guy, had this hardworking ethic, but his education level was eighth grade, right? So for me, when I'd come in and I'd use a big word, that would just drive him crazy. You own your big words. You think you're so damn smart with your big words. And so here's my question.

controlling part of you, this desire to always be the best. Do you see any of that as a result of being in kind of a dysfunctional environment where you felt like you had to earn people's love or approval or anything?

Risa August (37:00)
my gosh, yes, absolutely, absolutely. I had a narcissistic mother and an alcoholic father and he loved me more than anything, but he loved his alcohol more. And I think I'm, I...

And as far as a narcissist, you can never please a narcissist. But as a child, I didn't know any of that. So I would try to do whatever it took. I would be the good kid, the best kid. I would get good grades and be polite and well-mannered and do all my chores and do right by people and not lie. I mean, I really did.

I really am, I should say, yes, a product of, partly a product of my upbringing. I would say those parts of me, for sure.

Tony Stark Policci (37:54)
we're all product of our upbringing. It's whether or not we're ever able to shift out of that and find a new way of being. I think even, well, I can only speak for me, but even in the shifting that I've been able to do into new ways of being, there's always pieces of that product. The person that I was shaped that

Risa August (38:03)
Yeah.

Tony Stark Policci (38:23)
that rear their ugly head and are continuing to be a struggle to be different.

let's talk about this amazing journey that you took. it's the basis for your book, The Road Unpaved. Tell me about what inspired you. First of all, what is it? What did you do? And what inspired you to take this epic bike ride?

Risa August (38:47)
Yes, well I remember, I think it was six months post brain surgery. I think I just completed my radiation treatment. I had six weeks of radiation treatments and I was still on the couch and I remember specifically I was wearing these tattered gray sweatpants that were all

kind of worn out on the heels, you know, at the bottom hem. And I was wearing a faded purple hoodie again for another day in a row. I hadn't left the house in months. I had no energy. I felt like I had no drive. Nothing to look forward to. I have these big glass sliders in my house and I would...

look down at the driveway and see the mailbox and think, okay, maybe I'll walk to the mailbox today, but then I wouldn't. And my husband at the time would ask if I'd wanna go for a walk with the dogs and I'd say maybe tomorrow. And I remember sitting there one night home alone and...

in those same gray sweatpants and I just said, this is no way to live. This is no way to live. I need something to strive for, something to live for. And I remember having all these like goals and ambitions before surgery.

So why all of sudden did I not feel like I had anything to live for? so I pulled out that list and I remember thinking, okay, I always wanted to ride my bike across the country. And I started looking at different bike routes and found the Pacific Coast Bicycle Route from Canada to Mexico. It's a 1,845 mile journey.

and I said that's the one and that was the night I signed up to ride my bike down the Pacific coast. I didn't know how I was going to do it. I didn't know how I was going to get off the couch but something shifted there and that bike ride became a metaphor for my life and I wanted to live. I wanted to live.

Tony Stark Policci (41:15)
That's awesome. know, one of the things that I am really passionate about with the Heroic Podcast is encouraging people to take action, to believe in the possibilities in their life, even if they don't know how they can make these things happen. And what you just said is so powerful and I hope that people don't miss it, is there was this moment when you made a decision and too often,

Many of those like myself, I'm one of these people that I'm a controlling analyzer, depending on what kind of personality test you look at. But basically what that means is I like to have all my ducks in a row whenever possible, and I overthink the hell out of things, right? when I'm doing things best and when I'm operating in my area of genius, it's when I'm able to make a decision and then figure out how to get it done afterwards.

Like, I'm going to do this. I don't know how, but I'm going to do this. And that is what I'm hearing. It's like, this was a moment where you made a decision. And that decision is what created the momentum and the actions that transformed your life. Is that accurate?

Risa August (42:24)
Yes, absolutely. And it wasn't.

It was a process. wasn't, you know, had like 14 months to train for this thing. And so it wasn't like all of a sudden I got on my bike the next day and I was full steam ahead. No, I didn't get on my bike for a couple months after that. But I started researching the heck out of it. I started trying to figure out, okay, how would I manage my medication on this trip? I actually started, what I knew was I had to actually get off the couch.

But I couldn't physically get on my bike yet. So I actually started painting. I started painting and I don't consider myself an artist, but before I knew it I was selling art pieces around the world. So, but my point there is that was the first step. Was like, okay, I can't do this, but what can I do?

Well, can get off this effing couch, get out of these disgusting tattered gray sweatpants and start living. I feel myself getting emotional again. But it's and that's what I did. And so I started thinking of all the things I wanted to do. Like I said, I looked at that bucket list and those those goals and ambitions and dance classes I've always wanted to take and art classes and.

Tony Stark Policci (43:25)
Mm.

Risa August (43:50)
travel, like trips I've always wanted to do, I really started looking at my life and thinking, okay, let's live.

Tony Stark Policci (43:58)
That's fantastic. know, I think that there's, we have two lists. Most people have two lists. We may not know it. There's a bucket list, which is all of the things that we want to do and want to achieve in our dreams and our goals. And then there's a fuck it list. And that's the list where you put everything that we may have had on our bucket list, but just decide to give up on. Like, I can't do this.

Risa August (44:13)
you

Tony Stark Policci (44:24)
I'm not gonna do this. I'm not even gonna try. And I wanna stay off of that list, right? I wanna lean into the bucket list. I wanna lean into the possibilities. I wanna make the most of every day, every minute, every hour that I have because they're gifts. They're really a gift. Now it's easy to say that. It takes intention and it takes courage and persistence. And sometimes we fall down.

time and time again on our process. But the fact that you this vision and you said enough is enough, or at least I judge that's the point that you got to. This is nowhere to live, said. No way to live. And so I'm hoping that as people are listening to this, that they think about, what have I put on that fuck it list in my life?

needs to get moved over, gets moved back to. What did I give up on?

Risa August (45:19)
Yes, I love that so much. my God, like, cause now that you're saying that, riding my bike across country was probably on the bucket list. Finally writing my book was probably on the bucket list. And I mean, there's probably a ton of things that were on that bucket list and I moved them over to the bucket list. And...

Tony Stark Policci (45:42)
Yeah.

Risa August (45:44)
and I'm checking them off left and right and it's flipping awesome.

Tony Stark Policci (45:49)
That is awesome. And so I don't want to go too much into your book because it's an amazing story. And I got to tell you, I haven't finished your book. I shared that with you. was transparent about that. I am so as a copywriter and a writer myself and a ghostwriter, like this is not new to me. But I'm reading your book and I'm just loving it. The imagery and the storytelling. It's a it's a wonderful book. So everyone listening.

Risa August (45:53)
Sure.

Tony Stark Policci (46:17)
I got to tell you, you're going to love this book. You're going to love this story that Risa takes you through on this bike ride. So I'm going to ask you one thing, and if you answer in the book, then you can decline this question because maybe I just haven't run into it. But I know that there was a moment on that bike ride where you said, what the hell am I doing? But was there only one or did you have other moments where you wanted to quit? And if so, what kept you going?

Risa August (46:41)
Yes, were probably definitely more than one. What kept me going?

I don't know if I outright answered this in the book, but I it's just that desire to live life on my terms. I think it...

Tony Stark Policci (46:56)
Mmm.

Risa August (46:57)
It just opened, I think I stayed open to what was possible. I shifted perspective and started, yeah, just opening myself up to unlimited possibilities.

Tony Stark Policci (47:13)
Great. So you've faced all of these things. You've gone through the struggle. You're still in the process of healing. Do you feel more fearless now or are there still things that scare the crap out of you?

Risa August (47:27)
gosh.

how do I answer that? I think what I have the most fear around is, am I capable of doing that physically? And then I have to have a talk with Bubba and be like, hell no. You're not stopping me. so one of those things were,

doing the Camino de Santiago in Spain. I was like, I don't know if I could physically do that. And I started thinking of all the reasons I shouldn't. And typically it's a pilgrimage you hike, I couldn't physically hike it anymore without severe pain. So I thought, but I could do it on my bike.

And so I stayed open to that. Okay, like that shifting my perspective. Okay, how I want to do this. I can't do it that way, but how maybe I can do it this way. And so again, it was just staying open. And so I have to say though on that trip, I definitely had some fearful moments and crazy. it might be in my next book. It most likely will be in my next book, but.

But then that's when you gotta dig deep, when you have those moments of fear and find that place of calm and acceptance like we talked about earlier. And I don't even know if that answered your question, but.

Tony Stark Policci (48:40)
Yeah. Yeah, so.

I'm always looking for somebody who says I'm fearless because I'd like to know how they got there because I'm not. I would like to be, but I'm not.

Risa August (48:54)
I think it's not a matter of being fearless, but what do do in those moments of having fear? Like, what do do with it?

Tony Stark Policci (49:04)
Mm-hmm.

Risa August (49:06)
and how do you overcome it and conquer it? And I like, yeah, I actually do have moments of fear, but I have really learned to overcome, like conquer the fear when I'm in those moments. Again, I think it's,

Tony Stark Policci (49:18)
How do you do that?

Risa August (49:20)
a matter of going inward and digging deep and almost dissecting the fear. Where is it coming from? And what does it really have the power I believe it has over me? Or, you know, or am I creating that?

So I think a lot of times it's asking us those asking those questions and dissecting the fear and then you then you really get a hard look at it and you're like that's all it is okay moving on.

Tony Stark Policci (49:54)
I've been involved in this men's work for a number of years, more than a decade now. And I lead a group and I work with five different core emotions. And I'm like, these are the emotions. You go into some therapist's office and they got a list of 114 different emotions on the wall, which is overwhelming to a guy like me.

and is overwhelming to most men, but fear is one of the primary ones. And there's a definition behind it. And it is, I will get hurt. It's this belief that I'm going to be hurt. And I believe that all fear stems from that thought. so when you talk about dissecting, when I'm feeling fear and I go, okay,

What am I thinking is going to hurt me? What's going to hurt me about this? And then I can identify that and then I can say, that true? And if it is, what are the outcomes? What can I do about it? Is that not true? It's not true. OK, then this is invalid. I don't need to pay attention to this. My mind's making this up.

Risa August (50:53)
you

Tony Stark Policci (51:12)
I think that going inward is really important, at least for me, when I'm experiencing any kind of emotion that maybe is uncomfortable, or even ones that are not uncomfortable, because emotions are indicators. And I think too often people think that emotions are like the truth. So I feel sad, therefore I am a sad person. I feel mad, therefore I am a...

angry person. And they're indicators of something that I'm thinking, something that's happening, maybe something I'm putting myself through. So

your description of just going inward and kind of dissecting things really made me think about how important it is to do that.

Risa August (51:54)
Yeah, yeah, and I mean, everything you said, you said beautifully and that's a great segue into Gestalt practices and or the Gestalt modality. It's a very holistic approach to coaching or therapy and it's all about taking the pieces and parts of an individual and putting them back together.

so that the individual becomes whole again. And it's a very holistic and probably non-traditional or experiential approach to coaching or therapy. And it's...

It's it believes, Gestalt believes that the individual has answers within them. And, you know, for example, as a practitioner, I'm not there to give the answer. Even even if it's. Clear to me or I believe I know the answer, it's not my job to do that. It's to guide the client to finding the answer on their own and with my guidance, of course, but I mean it.

Man man when when a client gets to that aha moment on their own and they find it within themselves gosh I feel like the healing is way more powerful.

Tony Stark Policci (53:10)
Have you ever had a breakthrough with a client that made you just break down and cry right there in the session?

Risa August (53:14)
goodness. Me break down and cry? gosh. I certainly have had moments where I had tears or I wouldn't say full on cry. I've done

Tony Stark Policci (53:17)
Yeah, or maybe afterwards, where it was just so beautiful, you're like, wow.

Risa August (53:39)
practice coaching with colleagues where we certainly did. think within my practice, I try to stay solid for the other person, for my client. And I very much see it as a co-active approach as well. I don't know everything. I definitely don't know everything. And I'm not here to push an agenda or give you the answers, but man, man.

I'm going to support you and guide you and do the best I can to help get you to that place of healing.

Tony Stark Policci (54:15)
So this is, I only know a little bit about Gustalt. I know I've done empty chair work in the past, probably a few other modalities, but like if we played armchair psychologist here for a minute and I asked you, know, do you think that your drive to take on these extreme physical challenges is a way of proving something to yourself or to others?

Risa August (54:39)
gosh, yeah, I mean this is actually up for me right now. I certainly...

You know, as a child, all we want is our parents' love, right? And I felt like that was lacking in my childhood and growing up. But if I did everything perfect and I kept being the best at everything and doing more and more and getting that kind of acknowledgement and affirmation, like...

Maybe that's what I associated with love or acceptance. I don't know, but yes, absolutely. And I'm actually, you know, working through that right now in my life, you know, in my adult years. I'm looking at, you know, okay, is this what I wanna do or is this old patterns? Is this, do I feel like I have to do this?

Is it okay to be here? So it's definitely something. Yes, yes, sorry, I'm making this a long answer, but yes, absolutely.

Tony Stark Policci (55:40)
I like your long answer. My experience has been that in my life, as I've aged, I step into those kinds of questions and self-examination myself. Why am I doing this? What am I doing this for? What is underneath all this? It's important to ask these things. Sometimes I wish I would have asked them sooner. So I hope that by talking about them on this

Risa August (56:02)
Yeah.

Tony Stark Policci (56:08)
podcast and other places in my life that maybe somebody can pick up on those things 20 or 30 years sooner and maybe make a shift. And speaking of a shift, I feel like you've kind of reinvented yourself as this risks unleashed, right? I found on your website.

Risa August (56:25)
Yes.

Tony Stark Policci (56:27)
Okay, what parts of yourself did you have to leave behind in order to reinvent yourself? And are there any parts that you miss?

Risa August (56:36)
my gosh, yeah.

Wow, great question. my goodness. I certainly had to leave the...

wouldn't say the athlete, but the extreme athlete behind. I'm not physically, I'm not capable of doing, not that I'm not doing hard things still, but doing as hard of things as I used to. The perfectionist, the need to be perfect.

and always on time and not make any mistakes. I had to leave all that behind.

I.

I struggle now because of radiation treatment and some of the medications I'm on. I struggle with some cognitive stuff. My memory isn't so great. I used to be the person that remembered everything. I had my own wedding and event planning company and so I was every bit of detailed and organized as an event planner would be. I no longer...

or let's say I make way more mistakes now and very forgetful. I think sometimes as far as missing things, I struggle with that a little bit of like, I still get down on myself when I make a mistake. Like, gosh, I can't believe I forgot that. And...

Yeah, I have moments of being in the gym and going from being one of the strongest women in the gym to the weakest, as opposed to just acknowledging, hey, I fucking showed up today. And yeah, so, but I really love.

Tony Stark Policci (58:02)
Mm.

Yeah.

Risa August (58:18)
who I'm becoming and it's a constant evolution and I become more more humble and patient and accepting the older I get and I realize the older I get the less I know and I never want to stop learning. So I really love this version of me.

Tony Stark Policci (58:39)
But you're you're into some pretty wild or cool stuff now. I salsa dancing, aerial silks. Do you still do that?

Risa August (58:49)
I don't still do that, but I did take a class and tried that for a while. And then I was like, okay, onto the next thing. And I got really into indoor skydiving for a while and took it. it's a blast, especially when you start actually getting the hang of it. And boxing classes is a great way to let out some.

Tony Stark Policci (58:57)
Okay.

That's kind of a blast, to be honest.

Risa August (59:14)
aggression and I still go to the gym and I still ride my bike and and I savor moments with the people I care about and

Tony Stark Policci (59:24)
What's the craziest thing you tried that you absolutely sucked at?

Risa August (59:27)
gosh. Well, I wasn't that good at aerial assaults, I'll tell you that. my gosh. Yes. And I have to say, I don't know that this was crazy, but I used to, I used to be a dancer growing up and I took Bollywood dancing and I thought I would be so

Tony Stark Policci (59:32)
No. I can't imagine I would be either.

Risa August (59:51)
great at it. You know, I just love the energy behind Bollywood. It's so energetic. And, and so I did a self video in class. And, and you know, you think you look awesome when you're in the midst of it. And then you go back and watch the video and you're like, my God, why didn't anyone tell me? But again, what it comes down to is showing up and having fun.

Tony Stark Policci (1:00:16)
Yeah, that's important. Yeah, showing up, having fun. You know, if we could just be gentler with ourselves and enjoy our experiences. Limiting beliefs, you know, that's... Well, let's talk about that limiting beliefs. I know that you're all about removing limiting beliefs now. Is there like one ridiculous limiting belief that you had about yourself that you've managed to overcome? Or that doesn't show up as often?

Risa August (1:00:40)
Well, I'm actually in the midst of one right now. So maybe I'll talk about that a little bit. I'm actually working through it right now. Following my divorce, I bought my own home. It's the first time I've owned a home on my own. And...

I think I still struggle with how can I do this? How can I possibly do this on my own? Like I can't, like the toilet's broken or how am gonna pay the bills? Like there's all these thoughts coming in or the stairs are really hard on me now. And yet here I am, I don't know, four or five months later.

And I'm doing it. I'm doing it. So I think that's to be continued. And again, I'm starting to redirect my focus, which I think is key is, okay, am I going to focus on the broken toilet?

Where am I going to focus on, my gosh, I have my own space and I get to decorate it the way I want. And I have a lovely patio and I can plant all my plants and flowers and you know, the list goes on. So where am I going to put my focus, right?

Tony Stark Policci (1:01:54)
Yeah, that's great. So, Risa, we've been talking for over an hour now and I feel like we could just keep going. But I do want to ask you a couple of things. going forward, what... Let's say that Hollywood made a movie about your life, you know?

Risa August (1:02:01)
I agree.

Tony Stark Policci (1:02:12)
Who would you want to play you and what would you want the movie to say?

Risa August (1:02:20)
wow, I love this question. Well, as far as my Hollywood lookalikes, I've been told Demi Moore and Jennifer Connolly. It definitely has to be someone earthy though and a little bit sassy and rebellious and so

I don't know if that would be Jennifer Garner or I'm not sure. Yeah, that's a great question. But ultimately.

I feel like this is a generic answer and I'm not sure how to articulate this more fully, but to really inspire and motivate other people to go out there and do that thing. And it doesn't have to be an 1800 mile journey. It could be a cooking class or taking that trip you always wanted to take or

but just going out there and living life more fully.

Tony Stark Policci (1:03:26)
Get off the couch and live. Get out of those gray sweats. Get your butt out there and live for goodness sakes.

Risa August (1:03:27)
Yeah, yes, exactly. Burn the sweatpants.

Tony Stark Policci (1:03:35)
Who do you want to be a hero to in your life right now and going forward?

Risa August (1:03:41)
Yeah, my apologies. feel tears coming up around this.

Tony Stark Policci (1:03:45)
Well, you withheld them the whole interview and this is absolutely, this is a, like a tier okay zone. So.

Risa August (1:03:52)
Thank you. Yeah. I don't think I have a like an exact answer to that question. What I do know is that I've had people reach out to me from around the world and tell me how much my book inspired them or gave them hope.

or motivated them to go do that thing. And so I guess I want to continue to speak to those people that need that message, that need to hear that so that they can get motivated or inspired to go out and live.

Tony Stark Policci (1:04:33)
love that. So last question. Is there anything that I didn't ask you that you wish I would have?

Risa August (1:04:41)
gosh, gosh, you have good questions.

that I wish you asked. Maybe what's next for me? Like what's next for Risa? Well, I'm hoping to write a, I'm planning to write, I'm gonna change my wording around that. I'm planning to write my second book and I.

Tony Stark Policci (1:04:52)
What's next for you?

Risa August (1:05:06)
want to keep doing incredible things. I have my sites set on some they're called bike and boat tours where you take a cruise but you get to bike in between ports and you know because my my life and body's changing again so I'm starting to look at okay I can still do awesome things but they're gonna look a little different now.

Tony Stark Policci (1:05:16)
wow.

Risa August (1:05:31)
And I'm still gonna,

I'm still going to continue to learn and grow and find more and more ways to continue living fully. And I'm going to say fully unleashed. So without my own constraints and limitations, I'm going to live, continue to live unleashed.

Tony Stark Policci (1:05:56)
Fantastic. Risa August, you are an inspiration. And I am so grateful for the time that you shared with me today. Everyone needs to run out and grab your book. But tell me, where will my listeners find out more about you? Where should they go to find out everything that you do and get more inspiration and motivation?

Risa August (1:06:19)
my gosh, thank you, Tony. You can go to my website at rissaaugust.com and that's Risa spelled with one S and August just like the month. So rissaaugust.com and you'll find, yeah, all the things there. All my full, fully unleashed life.

Tony Stark Policci (1:06:39)
All right, and what's the name of your book again?

Risa August (1:06:41)
The road unpaved, border to border with a brain tumor and a bite.

Tony Stark Policci (1:06:44)
Now all of those things will be linked below depending on what platform that you're listening to this on. So I'll try and make it easy for you. But I do encourage you all to go grab Risa's book because it is a wonderful read. And I'm looking forward to finishing it. So thank you again for being here with me today. I really appreciate you. And I can't wait to see what you do next.

Risa August (1:06:59)
Thank you, Tony.

Thank you. Thank you so much. And what an absolute pleasure. I loved our conversation. Thank you so much for having me, Tony. Okay, take care.

Tony Stark Policci (1:07:13)
I'll talk to you soon. Take care.