Tony Stark Policci (00:01.222)
Okay, you guys just heard the introduction of my guest here, Zach Loescher today. Zach, thank you so much for joining me, man. I really appreciate you being here.

Zach L (00:10.308)
Hey, awesome, Tony. I truly appreciate it myself. I appreciate the time with you.

Tony Stark Policci (00:15.218)
Yeah, I look forward to this. So we met a couple years ago through a mutual friend in business and I've seen you do some pretty amazing things. I know that you've gone through some really great transformations in your own life, struggled with some difficult things. So we'll be able to get into that today. But I want to start off by just asking you a very simple question, which is, so who are you and what do you do?

Zach L (00:40.848)
Great question, I'm Zach. Lived everywhere almost, but now I got into online marketing and entrepreneurship in 1999 and dabbled in it for quite a while. And then in 2012, 2014, got serious. And after a 20 year career as a first responder, in 2017, I've been full -time online networking digital marketer and love the freedom to...

You lived in Denver, moved to Detroit. you so just, yeah, you set your own schedule. You set your own, know, how much you want to make, you know, whatever. It's all up to you. You're not tied to a boss or a nine to five or a location. So he gives flexibility and freedom. Unlike I had to show up and put my boots on the truck and get on the truck every day.

Tony Stark Policci (01:31.39)
Yeah, big difference. Did you say 1989 is when you started online? 1999, I was gonna say, there even like, that's like before me even.

Zach L (01:41.358)
That was from flipbooks.

Tony Stark Policci (01:44.606)
Right, so 20 years as a first responder were you a fireman? What were you? EMT

Zach L (01:51.28)
Empty so empty all over. Yeah, worked for a lot of Denver's privatized. It's not tied to the fire department So ambulances are private companies. So yeah, we're pretty much all over North Denver, South Denver East Denver some West Denver, so Yeah

Tony Stark Policci (02:11.71)
So let's talk a little bit about that. I've got some friends who are EMTs and that seems like it can be a very rewarding and also an extremely stressful occupation. How did you get into that and what was it like for you?

Zach L (02:31.62)
Yeah, no, I kind of grew up in it. I'm growing up in Nebraska with my family. My mom's sister and her best friend were, well, my mom's sister was the first female firefighter in town. And then my mom's sister Sue, her friend was a second. So grew up into it, you know, as we were hanging out and they got a call, I'd ride along and, you know, so I always got to see the behind the scenes and what was going on and did the junior fire academy, I think in sixth, fifth grade, sixth grade, something like that.

You know Wyndham played college soccer and you know grew up and my dad and my grandpa had a multi -million dollar business in know tires electronics home appliances things like that, but You know his 7 a Do 7 p Or whatever time you had to work all the time Wasn't really what I wanted, but I went to college and played soccer and truly the only reason I went to college was for soccer and Once my five years were up because I registered at a year. You know I went to a community college got my

EMT and well actually in college I took a first responder course because it fit my degree at the time so but you know kind of started that and that actually got me into Mountain Rescue and then the other year after actually even the spring after soccer was over when got my EMT which was a six -month course or semester course and the rest was history did that for yeah 20 years from just local EMS in Colorado to

Tony Stark Policci (03:36.776)
Yeah.

Zach L (03:58.872)
FEMA responses, Department of Homeland Security responses to natural disasters or the DNC we did one year, things like that. So just kind of grew into it. yeah, and you know, like you said, it's, it's very rewarding, but then yeah, does have its downside back then that, you know, we kicked under the rug. So nobody wanted to talk about the PTSD or the mental trauma that came with it. And if you did, then you were put on basically a desk position and

Nobody wants to sit at the desk.

Tony Stark Policci (04:29.81)
Yeah. Are you comfortable talking about some of the experiences you had as an EMT?

Zach L (04:34.127)
yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, you know.

Tony Stark Policci (04:37.17)
Like what was one of the best days that you had? Something that happened that stands out as like a great memory for you.

Zach L (04:45.736)
I mean, there's a lot of talking to the kids and things like that, know, that, you know, it's little boys and girls. want to grow up you firefighters or whatever police or, know, things like that. So, you know, that's always fun. you know, but then the biggest one, and I guess it's kind of weird, but, it was, a wife passed away and she wanted to pass away in the house and the husband had left to get medication and, she was pronounced in the house and we walked out and who knows how the family got there, but they literally lined up and.

you know, we're shaking our head and telling us thank you for it. So, you know, that's one that taking a bad situation with family turned it into, you know, some more positive. So.

Tony Stark Policci (05:27.88)
So you actually showed up there while she was still living and she passed while you guys were there?

Zach L (05:33.396)
Yeah, I see that she'd already was already gone. But yeah, but her wishes was the pathway in the house and she had a DNR and everything. So was we were able to allow that and that's what the husband wanted. And so, yeah, but it was it was a different turn because I think I can count about how many times on less than one hand that we got thanked for something.

Tony Stark Policci (05:57.532)
Yeah. What's your what's a typical call like as an EMT?

Zach L (06:03.184)
controlled chaos. Yeah, don't know. I I don't mean, you know, I mean, probably 90, 90 % of all calls aren't even an emergency, true emergency call. It's more that, you know, they, you know, like, and they should be, you know, they were scared something happened or whatnot or, you know, but, you know, so, you know, but most of them, you know, we're not, you know, emerging calls or anything like that. And most of you just driving slowly back to the hospital like a normal vehicle and

Tony Stark Policci (06:05.192)
Control Chaos.

Zach L (06:32.624)
You know, nothing big is going to happen. You know, it's that 1 % or 2 % that are, you know, a true emergency. So a lot of it is, you know, everybody thinks it's all fun and exciting and whatever, you know, 95, 96, 97 % of everything is, you know, kind of more or less boring and just, you know, basic vitals and take them to the hospital to get checked out. And probably within an hour or two, they're going back home. So yeah, most of it's a lot.

more boring than people think, which is good.

Tony Stark Policci (07:04.614)
Right. Was there an incident that happened when you were doing that where you remember first thinking like, I don't want to do this anymore.

Zach L (07:16.82)
Not till the end. Not till the end where it became more political with management and the dry humor that all the old timers had wasn't allowed or was shunned upon if you made the wrong joke or the wrong statement or whatnot. So that's what really started to get me out. And then I dispatched for like the last four years or so, three years, just getting off the streets completely.

Finally, the week actually right before Thanksgiving 2017 was my last shift dispatch and so, and it just got to yeah, a lot of political or, you know, more or less political with management and walking thin ice. So don't say this or that or don't crack a joke kind of thing. So, but there was a lot of that I think that moved around the whole world at that time.

Tony Stark Policci (08:14.59)
So did you just quit? Did you just leave? were you already working online in like 1999? Did you already have something else going on? Because you saw the writing on the wall, I can't do this anymore much longer.

Zach L (08:28.208)
Yep. Yeah. No, yeah, the writing was on the wall and I'd been looking to get out and continue the online path I was on with the online career I was on. And then, know, kind of, once I got out there and I was going to quit in January that year, January was coming year. So 2018 and administration and I didn't see eye to eye. And so I left early.

But yeah, and then I went into, know, using my online skills went into solar for a little while because solar was intriguing at the time for me. And, know, I was dispatching it as I was already looking into it. And so I did that for a while right after that. then pretty much, yeah, I went full time networking.

Tony Stark Policci (09:18.344)
So you also talked about in college playing soccer. Didn't you have some kind of a stint like in Europe or something when you were in college playing soccer?

Zach L (09:29.774)
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I was fortunate enough to have amazing parents. Yeah. I grew up playing soccer. They took me everywhere. Did, you know, camps with some professionals from Olympians, you name it. But yeah. And then one, well, first summer we were on a U .S. a selected U .S. team out of the United States. went over for the summer and played in different tournaments and everything all across Europe. It was like Germany, Denmark, Norway, Sweden, and the Netherlands.

probably forgot somewhere else. But yeah, then the two summers later after that, or two or three summers after that, we went over to our college team. The college team went over and we played. We were there almost three weeks. So yeah, it's pretty fortunate and was able to come back here to the States and play semi -pro in a league that was in Omaha with Omaha Flames. Why was it in Omaha?

then out in Colorado Springs.

Tony Stark Policci (10:31.934)
Did you learn any lessons from playing soccer that you brought into business?

Zach L (10:37.2)
Yeah, I mean, it's a lot of teamwork. It's a lot of camaraderie. It's a lot of leadership. I was goalie, so most of me was being a leader on the back end of the set field and whatnot. So there's a lot of things you can take from sports and turn them into business, especially leadership and practice. A lot of what we do in business is still practicing and learning new skills.

updating skills and whatnot, especially with technology now, know, versus in 1999 when we were doing flip books. think anybody can flip a page. Now it's setting up software and landing pages and email campaigns and bots and AI and AGI and a lot more to it now. you know, a lot of it, and, you know, one of the big things I got from Pam Wynne in 1999 was her, was her Book of the Month Club. Because once college was done, I was done reading. But I got that spark back into reading motivational books.

And so did that. So you can take a lot from sports and leadership and to come out camaraderie. And we had the same thing when I was in EMS is, you know, a camaraderie with your brothers and sisters on the trucks because our goal, our objective every day is to go back home when our shift's over. So knock on what I did.

Tony Stark Policci (11:55.015)
Right.

Tony Stark Policci (11:58.652)
Yeah, you say you mentioned the book of the month club. Were you, is that when you first discovered like motivational books, inspirational books, personal development books, things like that?

Zach L (12:08.549)
Yeah, that's one of biggest things I took away from Amway. I'm not a suit and tie guy or anything like that. But yeah, they're cassette tapes, they're motivational tapes. It was cassette back when I started. We're dating ourselves. But the books were definitely, because I didn't really read them when I got them. I was in the Book of Month Club, but I didn't really read them, but kind of when soccer was wrapping up and...

Tony Stark Policci (12:20.606)
Sure, yeah, me too.

Zach L (12:34.02)
Then I really was like, I need to these books and you know, got into them. moved my T's and all those, you know, first day I poured out all the normal ones that everybody's read and you know, it's, and I, you know, I slacked off some, but now I picked that up again a lot. So it's been good.

Tony Stark Policci (12:54.531)
When you got into network marketing, so first you started doing solar, what was your first network marketing opportunity? Was it Amway?

Zach L (13:01.872)
Yeah, I'm weighing 99 and that went to about like 2005, four or five, something like that. Maybe six. I don't know exactly. And then I just got out. got burnt out. then instead of doing that, I decided I'd pick up more shifts on the ambulance, which was probably the dumbest move because that's like 72 hours a week or more working. But then, and then in 2012 came back in and was in Vysalas up until

2017 -2018. So, and then bounced through a few companies and I've been with Bo and My Genius Leads for four years now.

Tony Stark Policci (13:45.308)
Yeah, network marketing, what attracted you to network marketing?

Zach L (13:51.504)
Me not being a very good corporate guy or rules guy. You know, the whole thing of, you your income's based on what you do and, you know, and it goes back to the leadership you can provide or the value you can provide to your team and your downline. You know, and if you can do something that's simple and duplicate it down, then you're going to be good. You know, if you're kind of stuck in...

Tony Stark Policci (13:56.68)
Yeah.

Zach L (14:19.208)
one way and that was kind of what you know the downside of me and Amway is they had a very structured program and you know it was dress codes and all that stuff and that wasn't really me but you know with Vysales obviously being a health and wellness company it was obviously there wasn't a dress code there wasn't anything on events and things like that but it also was a good product and you know got to know Audrey and Dr. Steve and those that made the products.

Tony Stark Policci (14:32.392)
Yeah.

Zach L (14:48.368)
And being a product of the product, lost, what did I lose? 60, 70 pounds or something like that with the products. So, but then they decided to take a different avenue and change the product and things like that. And it just didn't fit with my ideas and my vision. And that's when I left there. But as long as you're coachable and you like to learn and anybody can really do networking, whether it's...

an hour, two hours, three hours after you get off your nine to five or before or something. You know, so it's an easy one. I like it because whether I'm in Florida, Detroit, Colorado, Nebraska, Texas, wherever you can do it, wherever, long as I have my laptop.

Tony Stark Policci (15:37.532)
Yeah, yeah, so that freedom of being able to Go where you want work when you want Be who you really are. That's really appealing obviously to a lot of folks

Zach L (15:47.578)
Yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's, you know, and I think, you know, that, you know, being a single parent at the time too, you know, when I started MW, I wasn't, but it turned out that way. And being able to have that extra income for him to play hockey, which you needed a second job or a third job for the expense of hockey. But, you know, he was good and he liked it. So, you know, just like my parents let me play soccer all over the globe. You he got to play hockey all over.

Tony Stark Policci (16:09.97)
Yeah, yeah, sure.

Zach L (16:19.993)
So.

Tony Stark Policci (16:21.564)
How old is your son?

Zach L (16:22.736)
25 now

Tony Stark Policci (16:27.44)
Is he also involved in like networking or online marketing? Has he chosen a different path?

Zach L (16:33.112)
No, no, not really. He started talking about what he can do and stuff like that. He's up in Montana right now on a bear dog ranch raising bear dogs. I had no clue what they were until I looked it up. But yeah, now he's kind of looking at opportunities, things like that that he can do outside of that park because he basically walks the bear dogs and trains them a little bit for.

Tony Stark Policci (16:47.187)
Wow.

Zach L (17:03.041)
a place to stay on the ranch and things like that so he's got a free time to do other stuff now.

Tony Stark Policci (17:09.544)
Yeah, so your network marketing gave you the freedom to raise your son and then spend time with him and do things that like a normal nine to five wouldn't I assume.

Zach L (17:20.324)
Yeah, I was able to go to the hockey tournaments or practices or whatnot. There was some time I was on the ambulance, but a lot of it I could make.

Tony Stark Policci (17:33.426)
Yeah, that's one of the things that I really am grateful for in my career when I, you know, when I left my brother's company and started my own marketing consulting firm. I did it because it was kind of, I was forced to at the time. However, what it turned out to be was a great thing because it allowed me, like I never missed any of my kids' events.

You know of course people think that being a entrepreneur or a solopreneur a small business owner Affords you like all the freedom in the world well it affords us a lot of freedom, but also You know my experience has been that I don't know I've spent a lot of years as a business owner My business has pretty much owned me in a certain way now. Yes, can I make my own schedule? Can I take time off?

Can I stop working and go take my kid to a basketball practice or a football practice or whatever it was, karate, whatever they were doing? Yeah, absolutely. And at the same time, I may need to work from 8 o 'clock until midnight to make up for that time that I took off. But having the convenience of being able to do the things that are most important and work around those things is a real blessing. It's real gift.

you know, as I've, yeah, as I move forward in my career, the thing that I've become more focused on figuring out is how do I really own my time and make the most of it? So I think that, you know, what you're doing with your online business, your network marketing, the great thing about network marketing is it allows you to leverage your time and your efforts because you're supporting other people who

Zach L (19:04.197)
Thanks.

Tony Stark Policci (19:31.186)
by helping them succeed, it helps you succeed, right?

Zach L (19:35.92)
Yeah, no, it's 100%. And you know that right there, it's like, you know, why we have the flexibility. It's also the behind the scenes that people don't get. you know, last week I was up till it was almost 2 a or just after 2 a on a Zoom, you know, helping people. you know, there was part of the day that I didn't do anything. So, you know, I probably work more hours now. If you count them all about, I'll keep track of them because it's not really work anymore. But, you know.

It's more fun. mean, if I can help yourself or somebody make an extra hundred or 500 or a thousand or whatever that number is, that's more rewarding now. And it goes back to the MS side. I'm still really helping people just in a different way now.

Tony Stark Policci (20:20.722)
Yeah. So let me take you back a little bit to your childhood. Did you have, you said that your father had a multi -million dollar business, right? Yeah. And did you have visions as a kid of being an entrepreneur or going into business for yourself?

Zach L (20:33.326)
Yep.

Zach L (20:39.504)
I guess probably, I don't know. I had that little kid firefighter thingy mentality, but at the same time, you know, being raised, you know, from birth, but, know, through, you know, even up through high school and college, even when they sold it like around 2010 or something, you know, that guy was always there because I was raised in it. know, at that time, I don't think, I don't, you know, I saw the hours he put in.

Tony Stark Policci (20:45.65)
Yeah.

Zach L (21:09.102)
So I didn't really, I was like, that's a lot of hours, but didn't realize he didn't miss or almost didn't miss any sporting event we were at because he was like, we were talking to flexibility. So he might go into seven, but he's off at four for whatever sporting event me or my brother or two sisters had. So, but yeah, growing up in it, there was definitely that, I want to do this, but then also the fire bug was there a lot too.

And when you start on an ambulance, make $7 .25 an hour. So that was pretty sweet.

Tony Stark Policci (21:43.068)
Yeah, when you say firebug, what does that mean?

Zach L (21:45.818)
That was just a whole little kid thing. You want to be the firefighter or police officer or... Yep. So, yeah.

Tony Stark Policci (21:49.374)
Firefighter. Yeah.

Tony Stark Policci (21:54.038)
So you also have had some of the same struggles that I've had with you know addiction and everything you want to talk to talk a little bit about you know how did that start what what precipitated that in your life

Zach L (22:10.032)
It was, you know, it was all the bad calls or all the crappy shifts we had that, you know, we'd get off, we'd get off shift and, know, that, you know, six, seven, whatever time in the morning. And we knew that three or four, used to be four, four local bars in Metro Denver that opened at 6 a or 7 a And, you know, and we'd go just drown our sorrows, basically, or get rid of the feelings by drinking, which obviously isn't the smartest choice. But...

You know, that's how we did it. That's how we coped with it. Cause you know, there wasn't, you know, Mayflower or whatever, all these other companies out there are now. that, you know, and if you talked about it, management and you were taken off the truck and you were just put in the office for a while and you know, anybody that's been on the trucks, know, that's your worst nightmare is to get an office position. So we just go drink and dealt with it and not thought of, you know, it didn't really think about it, but.

You know, now looking back, it's easy to go, crap, that was a lot and that was stupid. you know, but it took, I don't know, 20 some years, when am I 48? So, I don't know, 30 years of drinking to figure out that there was an issue.

Tony Stark Policci (23:27.122)
Yeah, you so you talk about bad days, crappy days. Are you talking about like you guys were on calls where there were trauma and like death and horrible things like that happening? Is that what we talking about?

Zach L (23:34.542)
No, I get it.

Yeah, I mean I can pretty much tell you almost if I had a Denver map, know where the first kid you know that we lost Was at or the first heart attack or the first? Gsw or just you know, certain trauma calls, you know that you never forget and you know, it's yeah 20 years later roughly on some of those calls, but you know, I can tell you exactly the front I can see the front door I can see the stairs we went down and I can see the you know the kid or

You know, can remember the White House with the Denver Fire Lieutenant running out with the baby in his arms. You know, things like that. So yeah, it was a, it was a lot of that and pent up.

Tony Stark Policci (24:21.48)
Sounds very traumatic. You mentioned a couple companies which I don't know anything about and you don't have to go into them, but my assumption is that the companies you mentioned now, there are services that help first responders to deal with like trauma and the things that they encounter in their day -to -day jobs. Is that accurate?

Zach L (24:42.124)
I lost you there for a second, you froze.

Tony Stark Policci (24:45.052)
I said, you mentioned earlier some companies. I don't know the companies or you don't have to go into describing them, but my assumption was that those companies you mentioned like Mayflower are companies that help first responders to deal with just what they encounter on a day -to -day basis in their work.

Zach L (25:02.192)
Yeah, yeah, they're, I don't know if I want to call them, they're, mental health support companies. Yeah.

Tony Stark Policci (25:08.502)
Mental health, okay, but back then when you were doing this back in the day, they didn't have those kinds of services Yeah, you know, we're like society has gotten much better about actually Not pushing that kind of stuff under the rug. I don't know if it was always pushed under the rug, you know, I mean I'm older than you my dad's generation was like rugged individualists, know, they didn't talk about feelings They didn't deal with feelings and I know for me

Zach L (25:15.375)
Yeah.

Tony Stark Policci (25:40.175)
You know, I learned to stuff all my emotions. So when I experienced trauma and abuse, I just stuffed all that stuff down. And for me, it manifested in addiction. know, typically addiction is response to some type of a trauma. It's a coping skill. So there were no services like that for you guys. Nobody talked about anything.

Zach L (26:02.16)
Yeah, yeah, we did the exact same. just put your walls up and stuffed in and try not to remember it. But obviously, you remember everything almost into the exact address or whatnot. I mean, it took me really until I hadn't talked to really about it until last year really to anybody. it was seven years out, 20 plus years or whatever to like the first few calls or whatnot.

Tony Stark Policci (26:31.037)
Yeah.

So what got you to the point where you realize, I've got a problem. I need to do something about this?

Zach L (26:41.872)
Yeah, it was, no, no, I met Jennifer in like 2011, 2012 in Vysales. And then we started talking last year and I just had been coming out to Detroit, flying back and forth from Denver and finally moved out here to Detroit. then in October, she'd...

Kind of sent me back to my parents to figure things out and get help, whether it be therapy or whatnot. And I was there for seven days, 10 days, I forget exactly now. And then came back, but then it was in November. went, spent, came back, went, got back to Detroit and spent October and November in an Airbnb trying to mend things with her and.

was it, on, on November 24th, made a post about, one to commit suicide and I was done with life after again, drinking. you know, and she had an officer show up that Saturday morning then to the house I was staying at and, you know, thank God for her and thank God for him. He had a good talk with me and gave me his business card and, it was called common ground. And, I, you know,

It took me a day and a half basically to figure that out because I had a Colorado area code. So it kept kicking me to Colorado, which then they tried to give me a phone number for local in Michigan. But then Sunday that Sunday, now I just finally got somebody and decided I was going to go when they said pack a bag. so I packed a bag with like, you know, a pair of shorts and a couple of t -shirts and a boxers or something like that.

Tony Stark Policci (28:18.483)
Mm.

Zach L (28:35.028)
I thought I was going to go and just have a little interview. then Monday I'd show back up and we'd plan the week or whatever. And he basically said, well, you're here, you're staying here. Otherwise you'll leave. You can come back Monday. And I'd already taken an Uber there because Jen, which was good on her part, made my decision to go to rehab instead of her picking me up. then I probably would have tried to talk her out of it or something.

Tony Stark Policci (29:01.82)
sure.

Zach L (29:01.872)
But you know, I ordered the Uber, I got in the Uber, I got out the Uber at Common Ground. But yeah, so, and I told him, you when he said, you either you can leave now come back Monday, said, if I leave, not coming back. I already know that. So, you know, let's do whatever we're doing. you know, so, you know, it's been 259 days now since then. But yeah, if it wasn't for Jen, you know, I probably, yeah, we wouldn't be having this interview probably.

Tony Stark Policci (29:30.972)
Well, congratulations, man. Good work. You know, one of my favorite little sayings, I don't think you've ever heard this poem, it's, everyone comes into your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime. Have you heard that?

Zach L (29:33.424)
Thank you.

Zach L (29:43.556)
Yep. Yeah.

Tony Stark Policci (29:44.882)
Yeah, it's one of the things I've learned a long time ago and I've shared with my kids all the time. I think about, you know, one of the things behind my trauma is the loss of relationships. You know, my mom died when I was eight, completely didn't expect it. It came out of nowhere. And so I've had a hard time growing, you know, or as I've aged, letting go of relationships.

got a lot better at it. But when I ran across that saying, everyone comes into your life for a reason, a season or a lifetime, it has really made a big, you know, it makes sense to me. And I see it, like looking back, I see it. People that I thought were coming into my life for a long time, but they were just there for a reason, right? Like for me, the girl that I was dating,

Zach L (30:35.728)
Mm

Tony Stark Policci (30:43.634)
that is really responsible for me getting clean and sober. I was sure I was gonna marry her, you know? Like, in fact, before I even knew her, I walked into a house and I saw her sitting there on the floor playing cards and I walked out with my friend and said, I'm marrying that girl. He's like, you didn't know who she is. I'm like, I don't care, I'm marrying her. And obviously that didn't happen, but it was...

And she didn't even want to get clean. That was the whole thing. You know, I put her in rehab because she was doing too much of my dope. And as a result of me going to like the family nights every week, I started to realize, man, maybe I got a problem. So anyway, I don't want to go on to a long story about that. But it's interesting as we make this journey, we look back and we see the people that were influential in our lives in both positive and negative ways. And

You know, so thank God that she and that officer were there and everything turned out the way that it did. So your journey in recovery, I mean, the first year is amazing and challenging and wonderful and painful and all of that stuff. How are you, like, what are some of the things that you're discovering that maybe...

you've stuffed down or weren't aware of. And how's that impacting you now?

Zach L (32:15.696)
It's opened my eyes a lot. I was amazed at lying and hiding it all. A lot of the habits now you look back and go, well, yeah, crap. I did a lot of lying or lot of cheating or stealing or whatever. Cheating and stealing went a lot. But the lying definitely was, I didn't drink that beer or finding money.

get enough change to get another beer. But you know, the habits that I had in while I was in active addiction, trying to get rid of them and remember like day by day that don't do that, that's stupid. You know, is the struggle now. You know, I always say the whole, the drinking part for me, like it sucked like the first week or two, but I was in rehab for three weeks. You know, once I got out of rehab, like, knock on wood, like I didn't have.

that want for it or that need for it, like a lot of people do. It has been a couple of times, with my relationship with Jen and stuff that I was like, I should just go drink, forget it. It's not worth it. But then I look back and it's like, well, why am gonna throw away, whatever day number I was on, like 259 today, why throw it away? We can work things out or we can fix things or it'll get better.

But yeah, the biggest ones, just the whole line and making a lot of promises and then, you know, not holding up to the promise. And, like they say, in rehab, your first year is the hardest to change everything. you know, so another three months or something like that will be a year. But yeah, I a lot of it. mean, looking back, it's easy to look back and armchair quarterback now and going, well, yeah, I did this and this. That was stupid. And this was a lot of drinking.

You know, and some of it was PTSD, a lot of it was PTSD and that, but a lot of it also was, during COVID, the flexibility that working online gave me that, you know, as long as I had my phone, you know, I could text, you know, message, do whatever, and still work my business while I'm sitting in the bar, know, belly up to a bar, which, you know, obviously is kind of stupid. It was very stupid, really. You know, and, you know.

Zach L (34:43.342)
So, and then all of sudden with COVID you got alcohol delivery. So that just helped everything.

Tony Stark Policci (34:50.408)
to get to a whole new level, yeah, yeah.

Zach L (34:52.356)
Yeah, you know, then traveling back and forth, looking back, I got on the plane and, well, I got to the airport and got beers. I got on the plane, got beers, got off the plane. So it was just a windfall of everything that I didn't really realize how bad it was until now sitting here looking back.

going well no wonder my son didn't talk to me from April last year up until I went into rehab and now we have a good relationship again that we talk you know two three times a week at least you know but you know looking back on a lot of these things it was like yeah alcohol was involved there alcohol was involved there you know so now you know now it's kind of like you know I don't have to worry getting in the car like driving because I'm not drinking you know like you know I got D -U -I -N -O -8 and

I should have had one in 2015, I got a little professional courtesy from the officers. But it's a learning experience. I didn't learn until going to rehab, really, last year. But yeah, I think it's easy to look back at and go, yeah, crap, that's a lot of stupid stuff we did. But I'm just thankful for Jen and the officer. they're a big part of it, but then it's also I had to want it.

and I had to work enough to do it. She's been that guiding light for me to continue it and try to get better and learn to get better. I still got lot of growing to do and learning and things for my psychological mental side. The drinking, I don't really care about it. I drink a lot of sweet tea and a

Tony Stark Policci (36:19.439)
Yeah, absolutely.

Zach L (36:46.81)
Well, used to be a lot of Faygo. I ordered some Faygo while I'm down here in Texas for a little while.

Tony Stark Policci (36:52.907)
So, you know the interesting thing about Addiction is that it's a condition where we're constantly convinced Convincing ourselves that there's nothing wrong with us, right? So for people that are listening to this because I'm quite sure that somebody's gonna listen to this and They have a substance issue or some kind of an addiction and they're fully in denial about it like

telling themselves, I'm okay, I don't have a problem. Can you remember some of the things that you said to yourself to justify what you were doing? How did you bullshit yourself into continuing to think that you didn't have a problem?

Zach L (37:38.0)
It was just, mean, you know, it was just another one or two will be okay. You know, we can do it again today. You know, we'll have a couple and it won't be a big deal. And, you know, one was not enough and two was too many for me. you know, cause once I had two and then it was six, eight, 10, 12, but, know, it was just, you know, mine was the, I'll get up and work out in the morning. I'll be fine. I'll burn it off. You know, or it's not a big deal. I can sleep in cause I'm working online.

there's probably a million things I could think of. you know, unfortunately, and like you said, some people are gonna see this and it might open their eyes that they do have a problem. I know a handful of friends or partners on the trucks that, well, some aren't even here now due to it or other things, but, you know.

You know that they are where I was or even worse than I was. But you know, it's still until you want it, you're not going to do anything. It doesn't matter. I suppose, you know, and I don't think it really got that bad except for the last five, I don't know, five to eight years, maybe something like that. But, and especially during COVID because what else do we have to do? Especially when you're an alcoholic.

You just keep drinking. And it wasn't that I didn't have to wake up in the morning and have a drink. It was I'd start in the afternoon or at noon and I'd drink for, I'd do a shift with the bartender or a shift at home by myself. Just to, I had a bad day or a bad night or whatever and I'd just still drink to forget it.

Tony Stark Policci (39:24.754)
Yeah. Yeah, so during COVID was a tremendous surge in depression, in the incidence of depression and addiction and everything else. Isolation is terrible. One of the great things about being in a recovery community, as I'm sure you've realized now, is you talked about having some camaraderie with your, back when you were an EMT.

But there's a whole different kind of camaraderie that is in the recovery rooms. And the wonderful thing about it is, are you going to 12 step? Okay. So, you know, like no matter where you go in the country, in the world, we can walk into one of those rooms and we have welcoming people, right? It's, it's, it's a bit of a paradox because, you know,

Zach L (40:03.268)
Yeah, I hope so.

Tony Stark Policci (40:24.894)
Sometimes it's so difficult to connect with other human beings when we're in pain and we're struggling. But then once we say, you know, I'm screwed up, I got this problem. And then we can go like walk into just about any, for example, AA meeting or NA meeting or CA meeting or any of the 140 different A meetings that you go to depending on what it is you're struggling with. And you got a group of people that care what you want to say. We'll give you hugs.

and support you, you know, and really when I think about it, my brother who has an organization called Genius Recovery, you know, his take is that addiction is all about an absence of connection. It's a lack of connection. And it makes sense because, you know, this principle of one alcoholic, one addict helping another.

that connection that we feel in recovery is so crucial to us continuing the journey of wellness, the journey of healing, right? And it's almost like I know you've just moved from one state to another, in, know, where you're at now, I don't know how long you'll be there, but you have a community that you can plug into no matter where you go. And that's...

That's something, it's almost like people who don't have addiction don't have those kinds of things. In a way, there's...

Zach L (41:57.123)
Yeah, it's just about on tune and like, you know, it's, yeah, people, you know, well, there's still a stigma around addiction and everything, but it's like, you know, when I was on the ambulance, we went out drinking, you know, our group there understood what we were dealing with, you know, the trauma, the job. And yeah, when you go to AA or NA or anything like that, those groups know why you're there and what you're dealing with. And it is, it's like an extended family. And like you said, yeah, you walk in and get handshakes and hugs and...

You know, I'm super excited to go back to Detroit and back to the hive where I did a lot of my AA You know and walk back in there again, you know be you know, don't know 200 and something, you know 200 whatever days or 300 days, you know sober and Because it is just a big family and you know, like you said, I mean there's it's one of the guys told the story He went on the cruise and he was like, crap. don't know what the hell I'm do on a cruise and he said the first day He was on there. He heard over that

friends of Jim will meet at four o 'clock so even cruise ships have AAs you know so yeah so and you know with technology you can do it online now with I do the zoo crew every day or your phone app will tell you exactly you know there's one four miles from here so yeah it's yeah it's a extended group of friends or family that understand what you're doing doing

Tony Stark Policci (43:02.503)
Interesting.

Tony Stark Policci (43:14.268)
Yeah.

Tony Stark Policci (43:23.91)
Yeah, it's wonderful. now how has this like this journey and recovery, how has that impacted you and your business? Because you've been in network marketing for a number of years, you're reaching out, you're building relationships. all the while you're hiding the fact that you had this, you know, alcoholism going on under the surface. Maybe you weren't hiding it. Maybe you just didn't think it was a problem, but

Zach L (43:23.952)
Yeah.

Tony Stark Policci (43:54.05)
The way that you relate to people right so Normal people we'll call them normal people I think I'm a normal person now, but You know someone might drink to relax themselves Maybe they'll have a drink before they have a conversation because they've got nerves I know for me when I first got Got into recovery

and stop using things, it was hard for me. I didn't know how to live. I didn't know how to relate to people. It was always like, I would use something to prepare me for whatever situation I was gonna be in. It got to that point. And it was very awkward just transitioning into regular life. But I started having, connecting with my feelings and emotions, things I hadn't felt before. Or maybe had been a long time since I was in touch with them. My question.

is how has being sober impacted the way that you work and relate with other people in your business?

Zach L (45:01.168)
That's a good question. Right, the day I chose to go into rehab I did a long, I don't know how long, I don't remember, 10 minute video, 15 minute video, like just laid it all out and shoot everything. was, you know, just transparent as hell and totally right what was going on. So I think that kind of cushioned the blow for three weeks while I was gone, maybe, per se. So people knew now.

You know and then coming out of it Yeah, it was kind of show -shocked because yeah, it's like you said, you know, it's having those couple drinks to relax to Do an interview do a zoom do a whatever It made things easier in my mind at that time You know now You know, you know, like I said a little while ago like, you know doing that 2 a I might have made it on that 2 a Zoom if I was drinking that probably wouldn't have made the 2 a I probably would have been passed out by then

But now like this, it's given me that some of our techs are in India and I can get up at five in the morning and talk to them. Or I can do that till two a three, I think it four of us, get their software set up. But yeah, there's that stigma that, there's that alcoholic guy. I know people, most people will change their perception maybe of me or whatnot, but.

There's some that never will. There's some that will maybe never do business with me. I don't know.

Tony Stark Policci (46:36.38)
You actually have people who like respond to you like there's that alcoholic guy.

Zach L (46:41.504)
I don't know how say those words, but there's a negative, don't know how say it, there's a around it. He's only doing it for this or that, or he won't last very long. I had a good handful of people that didn't think I'd make it very long being sober. I'm kind of hard -headed in that, and I can make it until whenever God wants to take me, really.

Tony Stark Policci (47:10.568)
you

Zach L (47:10.754)
You know, so, but you know, yeah, there's, you know, that, you know, and there's people that, you know, so Zach was lying the whole time to us when he was drinking kind of thing. And I wasn't a good portion of it. I don't remember because I was drinking too much. Yeah. But in the same sense, right before I went to rehab in November, I had the best month I had in years. But I'm still trying to get that mindset back and have a clear mindset this time and build that back now. And, you know, it's taken.

longer and you know, I got more on my plate now too that you know, I'm still going you know, still want to get the therapy. I've been in therapy and hypnotherapy and AA and you know, things like that. So there's more on my plate. you know, coming down here was part of the plan to get things back on track. You know, you know, yeah, it's getting there. know, nothing's ever as fast as you want it.

But at least I know that it's a clean mind and clean body and I'm not having to do it while drinking. I think that's the biggest thing that now whatever I do, if I do something great or I f -something up, it's Zach and it's sober Zach and I can't blame it on alcohol. I can't blame it on anything but myself. So it's 100 % me and nobody else to blame now.

There's a lot of I was drunk. Sorry, you know back then

Tony Stark Policci (48:43.87)
You know, one of the most important things for anybody that's listening and knows nothing about recovery, and even if you do, is to always remember that this journey is a one day at a time kind of thing, right? You you talk about how many days you had, and I know that when I had my relapse, it was around 14 years clean and sober, and I felt like everything shifted for me, like it changed my life.

I didn't realize how much I had wrapped up in my identity and what I had done. But the important thing here in the application, think, to anybody that's listening is really this principle that is so important for people in recovery, at least in 12 -step, is this concept of we live a moment at a time, a minute at a time, an hour at a time, a day at a time. And you know what? You can apply that to any situation in your life.

If you're going through a difficult time in your business, in your relationship, anything, just recognize this is a moment in time. All I got to do is get through maybe this next hour. This sucks right now. My partner's upset with me, but this too shall pass. I'm struggling financially. This too shall pass. I will get through this. I think that one of the most important things for me

Zach L (49:41.626)
Absolutely.

Tony Stark Policci (50:10.584)
in my time recovery was it taught me perspective just about life, like how to live life, you know, and it's and more is revealed, right? It's interesting that you talked about how judgmental people are. We are all judgmental. Just as human beings we have, that's, think, human nature. And there are different levels. Like some of us have got it, you know, are managing it pretty well and others are completely out of control. They don't give a shit.

But the thing that fascinates me about judgment, even with myself, and I've gotten so much better with this over the years, is people tend to look at others, highlight something negative about them, and somehow make themselves better because of it. people can be very...

Self -righteous too like I remember Out here in Arizona where I lived there was a guy that there was kind of prominent in the community and it came out that he had an addiction issue and Boy, everybody just went online and started blasting him for this and I remember commenting to one guy like, you know What do you are you and I think the term I actually used is are you without sin? Like are you perfect? Have you never?

done anything screwed up in your entire life because you're talking like you are like that's who you are. And I don't even know you when I know that's not true. he lost his mind on me online. Right. And it's just so funny. mean, I really think that the world would be we would we would all get along a lot better if we kind of adopted this attitude that most people are just doing the best that they can. And we all have our struggles.

The best that we can do for one another is to help people be accountable to themselves, to be honest, to be real, to be authentic. I know that for me, the toughest thing that I ever did in my life was be honest about my flaws.

Tony Stark Policci (52:40.71)
It's also been the most transformational thing for me. Because what I recognized was the more honest I was about what I was going through, the more honest other people would be about what they were going through. It's almost like somebody needs to go first. And also the process, you know, there's a saying that I'm sure you've heard is we're only as sick as our secrets. And the process of sharing...

what I was struggling with, where I fell, where I failed, took the power away from that and eventually gave me victory over it. So I wasn't making those, I wasn't caught in that rut, that repetitive destructive behavior over and over again. I asked you how it's impacted your business and you shared some of these opinions that other people have, but are you finding yourself

connecting any differently with the people that you help now than you did when you were drinking? Or does it seem kind of the same to you?

Zach L (53:50.184)
No, I think it's different. Just because now, you know, why I wanted to hide everything back then. Now I'm an open book and, you know, I suck at a lot of things and I'm good at things and, you know, I'm more transparent on it now. you know, like, yeah, like the judgmental part, like, you know, there's probably some people back then I was like, I'm not gonna work with them. Or I want to work with these people because they party kind of thing, you know, or, you know, that was even like, I look back into myself's parties and things.

My core group with Vise -Alice and a couple of other companies was the partiers, the ones, let's go drink for lunch. Let's go drink at dinner. So yeah, now it's more, I'm looking more for the ones that are truly focused on business and go have a couple of drinks. I don't care on that part of it. But yeah, it's more focused and more open, clear -minded. There's not that clouded vision or clouded picture.

You know, I, a lot of procrastination too, back then, versus now, you know, using like Trello and stuff where I have certain, you know, here's what I need to get done today. Or here's my idea I thought of today. A lot more productivity going on. you know, within, you know, the Trello part kind of came to one day at a time and it's, a lot easier. Like, you know, if I want to make six figures, well, that's cool, but let's take it way back to one day at a time where maybe you only need to add one customer a day or, know,

five customers for a whole week or something. And for all of us in addiction, that one day at a time is very obtainable. It's 24 hours. I can do 24 hours. then tomorrow, what? I can do another 24 hours. Am I gonna drink tomorrow? I don't know, but I'm not drinking today. So, I think you guys made it more clear why I still have a lot of stuff to clean up and perfect relationship -wise, mental.

And there's still a of mental stuff that is there that I know I can do better and give more into the business and my team and stuff like that is just kind of getting back into the right mindset, even though it's been, what, eight months now? It's been a roller coaster eight months and businesses. And that's one thing that got me through rehab is talking to a lot of these people and rehab, they...

Zach L (56:17.696)
They didn't know what they were going to do when they got out. They lost their apartment because they were in for three weeks, six weeks, whatever it was. They lost their job or whatnot. Thank goodness that I residual income that came in every week. That when I got out, I did have money. So that was a blessing there. And it still kept coming in and it still comes in today. But it's not where I want it to be at all. the biggest thing is just having that clear mind.

clear vision now and now it's really buckling down and just focusing and grinding and putting in a lot of the effort and leaving you know people behind it you know like when I left Denver like you know 27 years in Denver I literally think I talked to four people now from Denver you know three maybe even three people two people you know so you'll see you know yeah once you

Announced that you have an addiction problem or whatnot and you know the people you were drinking with aren't gonna talk to you or very few You know and you know, think it's even got Less the longer I went now, but you know, that's totally fine with me, you know, that's their life But you know clearing that up and you know now I can truly find the people that you know want to know this sack and you know, this is

hopefully is a way better version than the drunk Zach was which I think he's getting there but it's a Zach 2 .0 is what I'm gonna name it

Tony Stark Policci (57:53.395)
Yeah, well, I'm sure that this version of use is a much better version, you know, I've watched you online I've seen the progress that you made and I you know, I see what you're doing and it's it's real positive so the The other thing that I that came to mind when you were talking was, know this Progress of addiction getting sick it

There's a saying that I loved. says the process is spiritual, then mental, then physical. In other words, we get sick spiritually first, then we get mentally sick, and then we get physically sick. if you look at the progression of any, at least substance addiction, know, first there's a spiritual flaw that allows us to deceive ourselves and others. Then our thinking gets messed up. We start making

bad decisions, like, morally, maybe we're morally making wrong decisions, which ties in spiritually, and then it starts to affect our health. Well, recovery is the reverse of that. You know, the first thing that starts to get better when you stop using the dope and the alcohol is you start to feel better, right? Your body starts feeling better. And then your thinking starts to clear up. And then,

Zach L (59:00.624)
Yep, 100%.

Tony Stark Policci (59:17.468)
The third thing that happens is we start getting better spiritually. And so, you know, it's a process. that, there's different phases in all of those, in all of that healing, right? So, the one day at a time is a great thing to keep in mind, but also, you know, as easy does it, and be gentle with yourself. you know, addicts tend to have

addicts and alcoholics tend to be extremely self -critical. I know that I still can be that way, you know, after many years of, you know, not struggling with addiction. So for anybody that's out there listening, you know, if you're in recovery and you're feeling like you're just a loser and you suck, you're not, right? You may suck at something, but if...

You you stick with the program, it's a process. We gotta trust the process and transformation and change takes time. But it happens.

Zach L (01:00:27.76)
Yeah, and it's you're 100 % on that like, you when I was on the truck, you know, I was, you know, praying every day, you know, we got on the truck, wait, I think it was St. Michael's up in the A pillar, the protector, I think that's the right one, don't quote me, it's been years now. But he was up there and you know, knock on wood, 20 year career, you know, never got no wreck, never got injured, you know, things like that. And I had that and then...

You know, yeah, like once I got off the truck, lost that, you then it was like, I can have another drink, another drink and you lose the mindset. And then, yeah, a hundred percent, you know, then, you know, was, even know what I got. Well, I got it to like 260, 270, 280. I would never step on a scale. But then, yeah, once I made that decision, you know, going on 11, 24, 23, you know, yeah, the hell started, know, I'm not drinking now. It's been a week or two weeks or three weeks. So was in rehab. like, this feels pretty good. You know, and then your mind's clear and your choices, you know, you know.

And we still screw up, you we still have a lot to, know, had how many ever years of the lying that I, you know, I had to be better at not do. But then, yeah, the spirituality, you know, now, like, you know, July 1st, I started a short video every day of the thought of the day from the AA, you know, and it's helped. But yeah, it's, you know, it's a process. It's not going to happen overnight. And just stick to it and it's going to, you know, it's going to work out.

know, yeah, all, you know, knock on wood. I got my blood work back three weeks ago or something like that. And I guess by the grace of God, my liver is fine. My kidneys are fine. Everything was fine except my vitamin D, which was like barely low. So, and I have no clue how, but it was, you know, and I mean, now I've been under 200 for like two months now, whatever it was since I've been going to the doctor, which.

Tony Stark Policci (01:02:09.489)
Thank

Zach L (01:02:17.968)
You know, obviously I can never get under 200, you know, because of the drinking, even though I work out a crap ton. You know, all when I'm taking in, I don't know, thousand calories at beer drinking night, like.

Tony Stark Policci (01:02:29.564)
Yep, yep, Yeah, for sure.

Zach L (01:02:32.18)
or whatever, you know what the bureaus are. yeah, no, it's, yeah, the health and the mindset and the spirituality, things are amazing now. And you just gotta keep plugging away at them and it all becomes easier and easier.

Tony Stark Policci (01:02:45.95)
There's a lot of parallels in the 12 step program that apply to all areas of life. know, principles that make sense like trust the process, right? And there's 12 steps. You come into a 12 step program, you don't start with step five. You don't start with step nine. You don't get to jump around. Like you start with one and you complete that and you keep going. And each one is designed to get you to the next level. Just like in business.

You had a process in the different companies that you're in in my genius leads. There's a process for how people succeed. It's it's you know What's that saying success leaves clues? Well if we follow the steps right for success whether it's in business and recovery in our relationships then We're going to get to the end result and and succeed

Tony Stark Policci (01:03:46.799)
There are some things you just can't shortcut. And it takes what it takes.

Zach L (01:03:53.904)
Yeah, that's yeah, the 12 steps. I mean they've been proven for how many decades now You know and yeah, you start at one and two and three and four and it might take you Three months it might take you six months to get to step four. It's you know at your pace and there's no It's not a race. You know, it's it's a journey and You whether it's yeah, takes a year to get through the 12 or whatnot. I mean But yeah, they all literally have you know step

step process has been proven by millions of people worldwide. I suppose not like, well, you're from the US, we can't do it in the UK. It's a proven process. It's like business. There's a proven pathway to success. So what's your goal? You set your goals just like business.

Tony Stark Policci (01:04:47.23)
And so, know, Zach, speaking of goals, you know, as we're coming to the end of our time here, you know, this, the theme of the show is Hero Up. And it's, it's about, you know, how to be a hero in your life and in your business and to the people that are around you. stepping into recovery, some people look at it and they think, that's not heroic.

I think it's different, right? I think that there's a lot of people that spend all their days on this planet and they never really face their demons. They never really step into that process of transformation. But right now at this point in your life as you're looking forward, and I know we're not supposed to project forward, right? We kind of stay in the moment. But I also, now, know, 30 years on the other side, I got

I got clean first time in 1988. So I've got decades here What I know now that I didn't know then was if I could have a vision in my mind of You know what I could see myself doing I never would have expected to have achieved the things I've achieved in my life really like when I got clean My goal was not to die in a freaking alley. So I mean, hey

Praise God. But like, who do you want to be a hero to as you go forward now, you know, in your life? And what, you know, what are the goals that are now important to you going forward?

Zach L (01:06:34.778)
Yeah, I mean, the hero part, who it could be a lot, specifically, obviously my kiddo, if things work out with Jen, her boys, just to be able to be that example that you can screw up big in your life, but still have a great recovery or finish even, whatever you want to call it.

You know and just showing them but you know also to those that you know, like I said it took me You know Friday from Friday when I quit drinking at 7 p Just because I know that's when my bar tab I closed my bar tab out You know, that was my last drink until it took me till Sunday late afternoon To make up my mind that I wanted to so to those that you know are inactive addiction You know, you can do it. It's you know, you just have to want it

Tony Stark Policci (01:07:01.756)
Right.

Zach L (01:07:30.346)
And I didn't want it for a long time. But it won't be easy. It'll probably be pretty damn hard. So even for them, it doesn't matter. And the other cool part, didn't really talk about AA, or NA, or any of these. It's every walk of life. Whether you're making six, seven, eight figures, which there was somebody in rehab I was working with that wasn't making eight figures and he'd spent over seven figures.

and his addiction. So it doesn't discriminate who you are at all. once you're out of that addiction, with a clear mind, you can be whoever you want to be. It's really putting your plate now to be who you want to be. And that's the cool thing is that we can show people there is a better path and that you're not that stigma that society unfortunately still has. You don't have to be that.

Tony Stark Policci (01:08:04.915)
Right.

Zach L (01:08:29.648)
You know, now I really don't care if you call, hey, Zach, the alcoholic. I'm absolutely damn straight I am. You know, cool. Yeah. And it's also been 259 days since I had a drink. Thank you. You know, so, you know, and that's the cool part, like, but yeah, mostly, I mean, for the boys for sure. Just show them, yeah, you you can, you know, can completely screw up your life. Yeah, completely screwed it up. And it's going to be a work in progress, but.

you know, I'm too hard headed to give up and quit that, you know, I'll get it all done, work on it. But, you know, just, yeah, to anybody that hears this, it is an act of addiction that, you know, you can, once you make up your mind, stay clean for as long as you want. so it could be, yeah, just to anybody.

Tony Stark Policci (01:09:22.034)
Second chances, know. I think that's something that's desperately needed nowadays is for people to know that when we make mistakes, that's not the be all end all, right? So many times I've seen stories of people who have ended their lives and I just think,

Zach L (01:09:23.77)
Here we go.

Tony Stark Policci (01:09:51.962)
Man, if they just had a little bit of hope, if they just had a belief that this was going to pass and they could get through this. So if you're to anybody that's listening and maybe you feel like, I screwed up so bad. There's just no coming back from this. I want to encourage you not to give up, to talk to somebody, seek some help. I'll put some links at the bottom of this interview.

If you're watching on YouTube or another platform where you can see text there'll be links to resources that can help you nationally and You know also I think one of the greatest things that I got out of recovery was a relationship with God I really understand that not only am I Not a piece of crap, but I'm loved and God gives me second chances, too. So if you're listening

Zach L (01:10:49.338)
Absolutely.

Tony Stark Policci (01:10:50.62)
And you feel that? I just want to encourage you to know that there is second chances not only with people, but with the creator who loves you and that matters so much, probably more than anything else for people to know. You're not unforgivable, you're redeemable. So, Zach, is there anything I didn't ask you that I should have?

Zach L (01:11:15.568)
No, I think we've covered it all. You can come from wherever in life and we all might hit rock bottom at some point. 11, 24, 23 was my rock bottom and I got to make that rebound and show everybody and there's a lot of stuff I have to rebuild. But I know within due time and within God's plans and my patience and I'm working on patience.

Tony Stark Policci (01:11:44.047)
Yeah.

Zach L (01:11:45.128)
you know, everything will work out. So yeah. just like, yeah, you said, Tony, don't give up. Don't make a long -term decision on a short -term issue. So yeah, I know a handful of people I knew personally in EMS had made that choice. So it's a short -term issue. Yeah.

Tony Stark Policci (01:11:47.282)
Me too. Still.

Tony Stark Policci (01:12:11.222)
Don't make a permanent decision off a temporary issue. So if people want to get a hold of you, if they want to find out about how they can generate residual income too, where should they go?

Zach L (01:12:12.836)
Yep, exactly.

Zach L (01:12:24.302)
then can go right to residualgenius .com or email me at zack at residualgenius .com and we can definitely talk and work out a game plan for you.

Tony Stark Policci (01:12:37.328)
Awesome. All right, well, I'll have those links in the bottom of this too. And Zach, Lusher, thank you for your time today, brother. Thank you for being open and honest and sharing about your story. It's been a real pleasure having this conversation with you. So I appreciate it.

Zach L (01:12:50.946)
Absolutely. Yeah, I appreciate it Tony and yeah, I appreciate you for having me on this is yeah, it's been great and you know, we all got to share our story that might help one person.

Tony Stark Policci (01:13:00.912)
Amen, absolutely. All right. Thanks so much.

Zach L (01:13:04.004)
Thank you.